To most people, UOCAVA sounds like some exotic fruit. But to those of us working towards free, fair, honest, and transparent elections the term often causes concern due to the enormous opportunity for election fraud in the current implementation...
To most people, UOCAVA sounds like some exotic fruit. But to those of us working towards free, fair, honest, and transparent elections the term often causes concern due to the enormous opportunity for election fraud in the current implementation of UOCAVA, which is the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act. This Act applies to certain U.S. citizens who desire to vote while overseas and provides the legal basis for their absentee voting requirements for federal offices. Linda and her guest, Heather Honey, discuss the importance of protecting the rights of UOCAVA voters while ensuring legal compliance at every stage of the process. Heather is the Executive Director of the Election Research Institute and the co-founder of Verity Vote, a firm that investigates and reports on issues impacting election systems. This issue affects every American citizen. Every election is important. Listen to learn how you can protect UOCAVA voters and the integrity of our elections.
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Linda J Hansen: Welcome. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Prosperity 101® Breakroom Economics Podcast. My name is Linda J. Hansen, your host and the author of Prosperity 101® Job Security Through Business Prosperity: The Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck, and the creator of the Breakroom Economics online course.
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I have titled this episode, What is UOCAVA? Why should we be concerned? To most people, UOCAVA sounds like some exotic fruit. But to those of us working towards free, fair, honest, and transparent elections, UOCAVA is a term that causes concern due to the enormous opportunity for election fraud in the current implementation of UOCAVA, which is actually the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting.
UOCAVA applies to certain U.S. citizens who desire to vote while overseas. The Act provides the legal basis for these citizens absentee voting requirements for federal offices. Needless to say, this could all get very confusing and it has a high risk of error or even out and out fraud. With me today to help us understand this complicated issue is Heather Honey.
Heather Honey is the Executive Director of the Election Research Institute, a non-partisan, non-profit dedicated to protecting voting rights by identifying and mitigating vulnerabilities in election systems by advocating for lawful, fair elections and government transparency. Heather is an investigator and security consultant with over 30 years of experience resolving complex cases in corporate and government sectors.
She is the president of Haystack Investigations and the co-founder of Verity Vote, a research and investigation firm that analyzes and reports on issues impacting election systems. Heather, thank you so much for joining with me today and for shedding light on this important issue.
Thank you for having me.
Well, it's a pleasure and I've heard you on several calls and different interviews at times, and I appreciate your work in the area of protecting election integrity. I gave just a brief introduction to the listeners on what UOCAVA. But could you provide a little more background and information so they can have a better understanding of not only the term, but how we can protect our election through understanding this complex issue?
Heather Honey: Sure, absolutely. So, so the UOCAVA Act originally when this sort of absentee started absentee voting started the 1st absentee voters were members of the military. Right? So, even back in the civil war, if you were in the military, you were allowed to vote in elections via absentee ballots.
That was like unheard of. And that time. Obviously, things have evolved, and so in 1986, the UOCAVA Act was passed, and then in 2010, the MOVE Act, which amended the UOCAVA Act, was passed. A couple really important things to keep in mind. When people talk about UOCAVA voters, typically they say that this is the military vote.
That is absolutely not the case. In fact, in the last, say, 20 years it has gone from mostly military and military family members who take advantage of the privileges of UOCAVA voting to now in 2022, which is the most recent year that we have nationwide data. In 2022, 65 percent of all UOCAVA voters will be eligible.
Or non military, and I mean, not associated with the military. This could be kids who are study abroad, right? Like doing a semester in Europe, maybe, working for a company overseas, the military segment of the U. O. Cabo voters, which includes, by the way, the military members and their family members and dependents who are also They are all categorized as military.
So when we say that only 35 percent of the the folks who take advantage of these privileges, Our military, we mean the service member and their family member. So it's a very low percentage when it comes to the military. It is much more frequently used by non military. So that's like the 1st really important thing to to keep in mind is that.
While the media portrays these. And even like recently you may have heard on the news where some of these secretaries of state have said, Oh, well, it could be a long time till we get the military vote in. Well, I mean, that's conflicting terms, right? So it's not really the military it's some military, but I think it's more appropriate to say the the overseas citizens, because that's the biggest majority of them.
Linda J Hansen: Well, it is. And this has. Potential for abuse. I know that I have heard that there are many people who are applying for this type of opportunity, but they're not really qualified to receive your cover ballot. So could you explain what can be done to prevent abuse?
Heather Honey: Yeah. So, so a couple of things that make UOCAVA voting particularly vulnerable to exploitation.
The first one is, as I mentioned, this MOVE Act, which was passed in 2010, allowed for every person who is eligible under UOCAVA, both military and non military, to receive their ballot by email or otherwise electronically if they want it. And so what that means in practice is that I submit, I send an email to my count, my county election office.
And I say, Hey, I'm UOCAVA eligible, please send me my ballot, not in the mail, but just email it to me as a PDF. So the recipient, then the UOCAVA voter will get in the mail, a, an email, I'm sorry, an email that has an attachment, they print it out on like their desktop printer, right? And then fill it out.
And in some states you can return it electronically. You can actually scan it and send it back by email. In other states, they require you to actually mail a physical copy up. So, the FBI, CISA, and everybody has said that email delivery of ballots is really risky. It's risky for, for a lot of the obvious reasons, it can be intercepted.
It can be altered. And so they, advise against it unless there's no other option. But in reality the vast majority of UOCAVA voters opt to receive their ballots electronically now. So, so for that reason it's particularly, Easy. So you don't have actually have to be overseas.
If you're a bad actor, for example, and you request a an email ballot, but you're actually down the street. You could claim to be overseas and you could just get it by email and there's nothing in that email delivery that would sort of confirm that you are actually overseas, which, of course, I think it's important to note is that there are eligibility requirements here.
Right? So if you are a member of the military or a family member of somebody in the military, You can vote UOCAVA anywhere, as long as you are more than 50 miles from your home. So even somebody, for example, who lives, grows up in Georgia, joins the army, and is stationed in California, they are UOCAVA eligible, they get all the rights and privileges.
But non military people have to be overseas, otherwise they're not eligible. So the idea, as you mentioned, that some people are saying, well, people are coming in with, You will have a ballots in person. No, because again, a requirement, an eligibility element in order to be able to vote under the privileges of your cab is that you have to be overseas.
So all of those kinds of things are a little bit concerning when you hear those, just because of how susceptible the system is to. Manipulation.
Linda J Hansen: What would you recommend for election officials like the clerks and everyone who issue ballots? What would you recommend to them to be alert towards when they're thinking about protecting our election integrity and how to protect against the bad actors that you mentioned.
Heather Honey: Yeah, so, so I would say a couple things. First of all, I want to point out that in 2020 a group of Iranian terrorists were attempting to breach voter registration systems and interfere in the election. They they were successful in breaching one state. And then they took the data, the actual breach data, and they made a video showing how easily they could exploit the UOCAVA application process, and they made a video creating all of these like thousands of fraudulent UOCAVA ballot applications.
So they made this video, they posted it online. Seem to be like a threat or a warning of some sort, what have you the DOJ investigated it and said they did not, it did not appear that, that they had submitted at least the ones in the video, right? So 2021, they released that indictment and it showed that this was a problem.
Same organization, this same group of Iranian terrorists are still in 2024 trying to interfere. So for that reason, we know that this group is aware of the vulnerabilities of UOCAVA. We know that they are willing to do just about anything to interfere in our elections. So, you would think that would prompt the D.
And an absentee ballot application if the person indicates that they are eligible. So what can they do? What can a clerk do? Well, the first thing that you want to do is actually make sure that all the information is complete and that the local address that they provide is a valid address. Every state has slightly different residency requirements.
So some states. You had to have previously lived in that state to vote, right? So in Pennsylvania, you have to, you had to have actually lived here for some period of your life. In other states like Michigan, for example, if you have never lived in Michigan, so say you were born abroad to U. S. parents, you could vote in Michigan.
fill out a federal postcard application and register and vote using your parents former address, right? So, so there are a lot of these sort of different nuances again, which make it really difficult for the clerks to verify that information. But if the clerk absolutely can make sure that all the information that is required to be on the form is there to make sure that the local address provided is at least believable.
And if they need to clarify, do so. In a state that says that your parents had to have previously resided. I think it's perfectly appropriate to find out like, okay, well, what were your parents names. Right. So that you could look that up. The other thing that's a little bit problematic with this with you, Ocaba is that.
Some states have much looser procedures within the state, right? So, so, when it comes to voter registration, generally speaking, some states have, voter I. D., other states don't have voter I. D. So HAVA sets the minimum standard, like you can't do anything less than HAVA. But states can do far more right.
They can require voter I. D. Every single time you vote. They can require all they can require an oath and an affirmation. So some states have really lacks requirements for you. Okaba.
Linda J Hansen: Before we go on, I'd like you to just explain to the listener what HAVA is. Not everyone knows the acronyms and I think it's important for people to understand the bigger picture here in terms of what is HAVA and how it impacts the rules about voting.
Absolutely.
Heather Honey: Yeah, I apologize for that. No problem. The is the help America vote act. It was passed in 2000 to kind of in the aftermath of the Bush V Gore hanging Chad like that whole debacle and Congress intended to sort of make election administration uniform. Right, so we didn't have all of these different sorts of problems.
And 1 of the things that they included in there was a minimum standard for verification of identity on voter registration applications. And so there's a section in HABA that says, hey, if a state cannot accept or process a voter registration application that does not include certain elements.
So, for example, for a person who has been issued a state driver's license or state non driver photo ID, they have to use that. There's no exceptions except for North Dakota, which doesn't have a voter registration system. And then if you don't have a driver's license, HAVA says only if you don't have a driver's license, you can use your last four digits of your social security number to register.
Those, so those are like the minimum requirements. Now there are a very small subset of people who are U. S. citizens and who are adults but maybe don't have ID or don't, have like a driver's license or a non driver photo ID. Or or don't have a social security number, but the number is very small.
And particularly so for people who are, traveling abroad, it's you can't cross a border. You can't, get into another country if you don't have some sort of identification. So, it's a very small number that don't have either of those.
Linda J Hansen: That's really good to point out. Thank you so much.
And so listeners to, I just want to apologize. There appears to be a little bit of glitch sometimes in the sound. So just hang with us. Every once in a while, there's a little bit of a interference. And so just hang with us because this is really important information. And we want you to be empowered to know how to protect your vote and the votes of others.
And we know that election day is coming and as you may be observing at the polls or working at the polls or just getting people out to vote we want you to be informed about these important issues because we want listeners to be aware. We want listeners to be empowered to speak on things.
And so, this is a complicated issue. And so somebody comes in, say you're working the polls and you're checking them in to vote, or they're coming to a voter registration table or something. And they say they have a Yokava ballot. What do you say to them? What should we say?
Heather Honey: Yeah. So, so in every single case, I would say call your clerk, call your county election director.
If you're working the polls, that is not an appropriate way for somebody to vote under UOCAVA. If UOCAVA eligible people, if their plans change, right, and they are now in their voting jurisdiction, they are absolutely permitted to vote in person, but they can't return an email ballot In person in the polling place.
So if that happens I would just encourage every single person, regardless of whether you're working a poll worker in a, county office or what have you just contact your. Your local election official and get some guidance on that, because that's not an appropriate way for a you have a voter to vote.
But of course, we want every eligible you have a voter to be able to cast her. But we just want to make sure that we're doing it in the proper way. So if somebody, like I said, thought they were going to be overseas and then had a change in plans and they were here, then certainly they can vote in person.
But not appropriate to return there, like overseas, you will have a ballot in
Linda J Hansen: person. Well, that's good to know and thank you for clarifying that because I'm sure that there's listeners all around the country who may encounter that and, unknowingly, Do something that's incorrect.
And we want we, we want transparent, honest, open elections where it's easy to vote and hard to cheat. And so, helping to know the different processes is so important. And then what are the steps to take if we see those processes not followed? We can see from the past that there have been issues with foreign interference in our elections.
So not only do we have to look at the Yokova ballot issue, but we need to think about citizens. Being the only ones who can legally vote. And I know a few weeks ago, I did some episodes regarding only citizens voting. We highlighted the only citizens vote week. We talked about how we want to protect immigrants who come here and, they may be legal citizens.
They may be living and working here in the United States legally. Abiding by all the laws and someone may tell them they can go vote. And that is not true. Only legal U S citizens can vote in our U S elections. And we need to make sure every city clerk, every election observer, every poll worker understands this and to be alert to non citizens voting.
And it's hard to tell who's a citizen. And in that, especially now when illegals are being given social security cards and, driver's licenses and work permits, even though they're actually illegal. But in any case, we need to be alert to the fact that only legal citizens are allowed to vote in us elections and to vote, or even to request a ballot is a deportable offense.
Yeah,
Heather Honey: that's absolutely right. And again, we talked about what can the election officials do? What could the county clerk? What could the municipal clerk to clerk do? The issue is this, right? The laws as they exist right now, I mean, they tried to pass the SAVE Act, unfortunately it was not successful, but when somebody submits a federal postcard application, they can put a social security number on there and they could attempt to match that for against social security administration database.
But the social security administration will not say that it's a non citizen. It'll just say it's a match. Or it's not a match. So even having that information does not itself confirm citizenship, which is why some states have again higher standards when it comes to you, Ocala, Alaska, for example, says if you are an overseas citizen now, not military, right?
Because military has a whole other set of categories and everybody in the military has I. D. There's just no question about that. So if you apply for a ballot in Alaska and you say that you are a non military person overseas they say, Okay, show me your passport. I want a copy of your passport, like different things like that, that the states can do to confirm that these Applicants are in fact citizens and are in fact eligible to vote.
It is not an impediment to voting when you ask somebody to provide verification of who they are and confirm who they say they are. Which is, part of the problem in some of these states, particularly in states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. And those are two states where they have policies, believe it or not, policies that are in conflict with the federal law when it comes to you, Okava voting.
So Pennsylvania Department of State has instructed counties to not attempt to verify the information on the applications for you, Okava voters. So if Pennsylvania receives a, if a county in Pennsylvania gets a federal postpart application for a UOCAVA ballot, the Department of State said, you cannot attempt to verify the information.
They're not going to run the driver's license to see if it's real. They're not going to run the social security number to see it's real. They are simply going to send them a ballot, usually by email. And in this particular cycle right now, 2024, so far, There have been about 33, 000 UOCAVA ballot requests in Pennsylvania alone, but only 6, 000 of those are military and military family members.
The others are people who, again, maybe are people who purport to be overseas, former residents of Pennsylvania, and the Department of State has said, yeah, we're not going to check it. We're just going to send them out. And of course that's not what federal law requires. Federal law requires that you verify the information on a voter registration application.
Similar issue, obviously, in Wisconsin, that made some news. In the 2022 cycle because they to do not check if the applicant claims to be in the military, just as I'm, checks the box that says they're military, they don't attempt to, to verify it. So what does that do that allows people who are committing fraud to request a ballot and just check the box and say, I'm in the military.
And then they they get them. And of course there were three that were sent to Janelle branch and in 2022. All fictitious made up, that was to make a point right to just kind of expose the issues with the system. But it, there's an opportunity when elections are so close, and I don't even mean just like, top of the ticket.
These down ballot races are very close. So when you allow any ineligible people to cast a ballot, it dilutes the vote of somebody who is a eligible lawful citizen voter. And we shouldn't tolerate one. Much less, dozens or hundreds or thousands.
Linda J Hansen: Exactly. And, elections have consequences.
Policy matters. And, you talked about how there may be a state law that contradicts with a federal law. Well, here's or a federal law that contradicts a state law. Right. And we are seeing a lack of adherence. To the law across the board, and there's been directives and things that have come down that are not appropriate and not even legal.
Sometimes in terms of election procedures, we see in 2020, we saw in 2022, we're seeing it again in 2024. However, it takes time. To untangle that. I talked at the beginning of the broadcast about how this is a complicated issue. Well, anytime there's election fraud, election interference, anything like that, it takes time to untangle that tangled ball of yarn.
And that is where we who want honest, transparent. Free, fair elections are at a disadvantage because as we take things through the court cases and things, it's by the time you get the truth out and you show what actually happened the damage has often been done in terms of who is in office and what the policies are that they're promoting.
So, this is a way to make sure we. Stop this before it begins in a way and stop the bad policy before it begins by making sure that we have free, fair, honest, transparent elections where it's easy to vote, hard to cheat, where the only ballots counted are those that are legally cast, certifiable.
They've followed a proper chain of custody. We know that these things are happening. And so for all of you who are going to vote, maybe you want to go vote early, there's a big push to vote early. And if you do so, I mean, a lot of people vote by mail. My personal thing is please don't vote by mail, go ahead and go early, but vote in person, that's my personal thing.
I'm not. Speaking for any organization right there, I'm just saying my personal thing, I've seen too many things with mail in ballots and even ballot boxes. We've seen anybody who saw 2000 mules or anything, the ballot drop boxes are not always secure. So, if you want to vote early, My personal recommendation is to go in person to your city offices and do it there.
And it's just a more secure way. But in any case, make sure that when you go to vote, You follow election law and procedures. And if you are helping by observing or being a poll worker pay attention to your training materials make sure you've done a little research. So you're not caught off guard on election day.
And with something that you don't know how to handle, which of course could still happen. And that's why we have our election officials, our city clerks and things But make sure you're aware. So what would you tell people who maybe are even nervous about going to serve in such roles?
Cause they're afraid they might miss something like this.
Heather Honey: Well, I mean, in almost every case before somebody becomes a poll worker or a poll watcher, they go through some level of training. So, people should not be intimidated at all. There are groups and organizations that are out there that do training that supplements whatever the, municipality or the county might provide.
So, there's all kinds of training out there, opportunities to learn and really kind of become familiar, but sometimes just being there, right? Being there makes a difference. I know people are working really hard to make sure that we have full watchers in, in every step of the process and hopefully some of these counties that, that previously were somewhat opposed to transparency and allowing ops observers to have any kind of meaningful access.
I'm hoping that this time around it's going to be a little bit different and they recognize that transparency breeds trust. And so the opposite of that is true. If you withhold transparency and you're, all secretive it makes people distrust. And what we really need to do is restore trust in the system.
And one of the best ways to do that is to be transparent. And so volunteer, go out, work the polls, sign up, do what you can. Just have eyes on every
Linda J Hansen: bit of it. Absolutely. And my final question for you is what would you tell employers who want to help their employees understand the importance of this issue?
Not only just your cover, but the election integrity issue overall.
Heather Honey: Yeah. So, so what I would tell employers to share with their employees is that tell them almost everybody has some member of their family who's in the military, and they so share with them that this system is designed to enable members of the military and military family members to vote, but very few of them do.
As I mentioned, 17 percent in Pennsylvania of the UOCOP 32, 000, only 17 percent Military and military family members. Unfortunately, they don't realize that they can vote and they can vote easily and they can get their materials by email. So I would tell them, please, advocate for your family members who do serve to be aware of these things because, they, we want them to vote in, in a hundred percent, But in terms of like the importance of the election integrity movement, as you mentioned in the beginning, people that are advocating for fair, lawful, accurate, transparent elections are often called names and disparaged.
And, I'm, that's, obviously sort of, Pretty sad state of affairs that you can, be in a position where you're a volunteer. You're saying, Hey, listen, I'm for something like transparent elections. And then, you're attacked. So, but listen, it's our duty to to be involved to make sure that we are engaged so that most of the people that conduct elections are our friends and neighbors.
And they want to do the right thing. And so just keep that in your mind and know that there are some bad actors in every aspect of things, like you go to the grocery store and you wouldn't think of trying to steal a pot roast, but somebody will. And so the same is true in our elections.
Most people want to be, truthful, accurate, honest, but There are bad actors out there, whether it's a nation state bad actor that's trying to do something or just individual bad actors. They're out there. But that is not the majority of people. So, and the majority of people who care about elections and who are working towards election integrity are also incredibly good people.
And I think that we need to keep that in mind and stop name calling.
Linda J Hansen: Well, I think that's a really good point. And the other thing I'd like to add for employers is please, if you can, make sure you give employees time off to go vote. Especially people with young families.
Sometimes it's hard to do so if kids are home from school or whatever. There's two parents working or whatever. But please try to do what you can in your workplace to make it. Easy for your employees to be able to vote. And if you are able to go a step beyond that, maybe you can give them election day off.
So they could volunteer to work at the polls. Maybe there's ways that you can help. And even just talking about the need for such things or talking about making sure that they understand the law, even just posting election law. Or sample ballots can really help to raise awareness in the workplace.
So employers as I always say, it's up to you. You often are a last stop for education for people in the workplace. So, please do your part and do what you can to make sure we can have free, fair, transparent. Honest, open elections. So Heather, would you like to close with anything else? Any other closing thoughts before we give people your contact information?
Heather Honey: Yeah, I mean, I think that, as we are approaching election day, we're just, a few, not even two weeks away anymore. There's a lot of tension and there's a lot of angst and I would just say, everybody that they're like, there are going to be there.
There's going to be announcements. There's going to be things on social media. Don't react to those things. Don't believe half of it. Let's just go and vote and make sure everybody who is legally entitled to vote can vote, and then hopefully we'll get fair and accurate. Results and then
Linda J Hansen: we'll go on from
Heather Honey: there.
Linda J Hansen: That's a really good advice. So people want to reach out to you and follow your work. How should they do so?
Heather Honey: Yeah, so you can go to the election Research Institute dot org Election Research Institute dot org. That is our C three, our nonprofit. Organization or you can read some of the the previous work that we've done some of the research on verity vote dot U.
Linda J Hansen: Well, that sounds great. So thank you so much. We appreciate all your work to make sure our election system is protected and that we do have the opportunity and right to vote here in America and we can do so freely and fairly.
So thank you for your work and thank you for joining me today.
Heather Honey: Well, thank you for having me.
Linda J Hansen: Thank you again for listening to the Prosperity 101® podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a great review. Don't forget to visit Prosperity101.com to access the entire podcast library, to order my newest book, Job Security Through Business Prosperity: The Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck, or to enroll you or your employees in the Breakroom Economics online course.
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