Uniting Voices for Freedom – with Kevin Fobbs [Ep. 84]

P101-ep-84-podcast transcript

Linda J. Hansen: Welcome, thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Prosperity 101 Break Room Economics Podcast. My name is Linda J. Hansen, your host and the author of Prosperity 101: Job Security Through Business Prosperity, The Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck, and the creator of the Breakroom Economics online course.

The book, the course, and the entire podcast library can be found on prosperity101.com. I seek to connect boardroom to break room and policy to paycheck by empowering and encouraging employers to educate employees about the public policy issues that affect their jobs.

My goal is to help people understand the foundations of prosperity, the policies of prosperity, and how to protect their prosperity by becoming informed, involved, and impactful. I believe this will lead to greater employee loyalty, engagement, and retention, and to an increased awareness of the blessings and responsibilities of living in a free society. Listen each week to hear from exciting guests, and be sure to visit prosperity101.com. 

Thank you so much for joining us. My guest today is Kevin Fobbs. Kevin is chairman of the American Christian Civil Rights Movement, or the ACCRM. He is president of the NAACP 2021, which might not be what you think it is. It is actually the National Association for the Advancement of Cancelled People. He's also managing partner of Ascension Entertainment Productions and director of RTL Productions. He is a producer of the Holocaust-themed movie-drama Never Again, collaborator on the 2018 police documentary, Bleeding Blue, and producer-director of the post-Civil War, World War II, historical Christian Southern civil rights drama, Jonathan, Living on the Edge of History. He's also the executive director and producer of the film version of his soon-to-be-released book, Bernadine and Winston: The Crooked Worm's Four Seasons of Life, a modern Christian fairy tale. 

In the 1970s, Kevin became a professional journalist and attended Wayne State University Law School. His written work has appeared in The New York Times, and he has written for The Detroit News, The Michigan Chronicle, Clash Daily, Renew America, Communities Digital News, among others.

Kevin is co-writer of Sandy Hook Massacre: When Seconds Count, Police Are Minutes Away. In 2014, Kevin, together with his grandson, co-authored the Christian children's book, Is There a Lion in My Kitchen? He is co-author of Shut Your Mouth: How the Left Plays the Race Card to Silence Conservatives and How to Stop It. He is co-host of the New Right Network's American Exceptionalism and the upcoming American Correct podcast shows.

So with that, I welcome you, Kevin.

Kevin Fobbs: Thank you Linda for having me today.

Linda J. Hansen: Well, it's a pleasure. And one thing I didn't tell the listeners is how we met. We actually met through social media, and it was an instant connection. And we have become very good friends and co-laborers in the freedom movement, shall I say.

But I just really appreciate your wisdom, your experience, your sense of humor, which the listeners will find that your laugh is like the baby laugh. You know, like if you hear a baby laugh, you can't help but smile. And that's what happens when I hear you laugh.

Kevin Fobbs: Well thank you.

Linda J. Hansen: But there's so much here to what you're doing. And we could go off in so many different directions. But I think for our listeners now, I'd really like to focus on why you chose to found the National Association for the Advancement of Cancelled People.

Kevin Fobbs: Well, the decision was pretty clear for me and for a number of us who have been working together for the last several years. We're seeing Americans being canceled from a variety of different walks of life. And we just made the decision that it's pretty clear from the Bible that we must stand for the creation.

And that creation that God has made is in His image. And so anyone that's being canceled by race or by any other way—God is being canceled as well. And we just kind of felt that we were called to do that. One of the things that guides me, and I believe guides us, is Isaiah 6:8: "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?' And I said, 'Here am I. Send me.'"

And I believe that's what this reflects. The NAACP 2021 is the kind of organization that stands up for those who are innocent, those who need to be defended, those who are being marginalized or minimized in America.

I'm guided also by Reverend King. When he spoke in 1963, he talked about his dream. And he said that we must be guided by the content of our character and not the color of our skin. And I think that's really essential for us as Americans, for the business community especially, and for the employees and for their families, all of our families in America. So our job is to make certain that we stand up as Americans. There are over 300 million Americans in this nation.

And we have the opportunity to make certain that we continue this colorblind approach to America and that we restore it. Because I think that would put Martin Luther King's message on the sidelines. I think we have to bring it back to the arena. And I think our job is to make certain that we do that. And we must be an advocate for America and for what our founding fathers created with the guidance of God as part of the mission of this nation.

Linda J. Hansen: That is really great. I think as many people might be listening now, maybe some of our listeners have been canceled. I know many people who have been canceled. Either they have been taken off Twitter or Facebook or their posts have been blocked. Some of them have literally had websites removed. Some people that I know have had their email platforms canceled because people felt their message of patriotism was inappropriate or misinformation.

And so we really need to think about this. And I hope that all listeners, please listen, because this affects you. Even if you haven't been canceled yet, it could be you tomorrow. And as we're going to share some stories, you will find how this affects your family, your business. If you're not a business owner, it affects your employer. This affects everything. And if you are a parent, what kind of society do you want your children to grow up in? Do you want them to be able to be free, to reach their fullest potential, to be creative, to write, to speak freely?

Martin Luther King said basically what he wanted to do was promote constitutional, colorblind equality of rights and freedom. And that is what America has always stood for. And I really applaud your efforts to make sure we bring that mindset back into the forefront.

Kevin Fobbs: Well, thank you, Linda. One of the things that I think is very important for us to understand—and for example, we did an article, Susan Swift and I, about this doctor in Minneapolis, Dr. Castillo, who's fighting CRT in a hospital. Now, when you think about even going into a hospital, could you be canceled? You probably are not thinking about being canceled. You probably are just thinking about, will I actually get better, or will my problem be taken care of?

But the reality is, in Minneapolis—and this is something that our organization is joining the fight on—they actually have instituted a way to cancel or segregate care. And they actually are, they have, and this is what she's been fighting against, is that because she's fighting against CRT practices and policies, where you have Blacks taking care of Blacks and Whites taking care of Whites, and in addition, putting White patients sort of like on a list of some sort, so that you're not necessarily getting the kind of care, because after all, we're talking about, quote, restoring equality.

Linda J. Hansen: I'll pause for just a second, in case there's listeners who may not really know what CRT is. You and I know what it is, but could you explain what CRT is, so they'll have a better understanding of what this doctor is trying to combat?

Kevin Fobbs: OK. CRT is critical race theory. So a theory that Whites in America are guilty by birth of being racist, and therefore, everything that flows after birth has to be questioned, and that you're guilty by birth, so therefore, you are not entitled to equality. And in fact, what they're now pushing is called equity, which means that instead of being judged by the content of your character and by achievement, you're being judged by the color of your skin, and therefore, you may not be able to get proper care or educational opportunities or job opportunities, and that is the actual reverse.

So it's not even reverse discrimination, because when you think about reverse discrimination, that's illegal, right? Here, what CRT or critical race theory is saying, and being, unfortunately, adopted by far too many businesses and far too many states, and unfortunately, by the Biden administration. And if you think about last year, President Trump canceled CRT or critical race theory training and enforcement policies, and as soon as President Biden took office, that very first week, he brought it back. And in fact, now the military in February has decided that it was important that every branch of service use critical race theory and apply it to the armed services.

That is the most odious—if you think about it—that is the most odious implementation of a policy. Because for the military, we would think, we would hope, that the military is the one area where it's not poisoned by public policy or not poisoned by politics. But this year, in February, the military became poisoned by politics and by policy, and now you have to be woke in order to be promoted in the military, in Biden's America.

Linda J. Hansen: And I've seen several videos of military members actually rising up and speaking against this—from higher-ranked individuals to just enlisted people—who are saying, wait, when I go fight on the battlefield, we don't care about each other's skin color. We're all one color. We all bleed red, and we bleed red, white, and blue.

Kevin Fobbs: Right. 

Linda J. Hansen: And, you know, this is just a horrible example of separating and separating people. Our current policies through this administration—I think—are separating people by fear, separating people by vaccinated, unvaccinated, separating people by skin color, separating people by gender. It is a horrible thing that's happening to our society. But thank you so much for explaining that. 

But now I really do want to circle back to what you were talking about in Minneapolis. Please continue the story that you were sharing. And thank you for letting the listeners know a little bit more about critical race theory or CRT.

Kevin Fobbs: Certainly. Dr. Tara Castillo is an accomplished doctor. What's interesting about it is that up until the time that they began to implement critical race theory in the hospital, she was one of the most foremost doctors in her field in America. And suddenly she decided, wait a minute—when you have two children coming into the hospital, one is not being cared for, that's white, and one is being cared for, that's black—there’s a problem there.

Well, according to the hospital administration, not so much—not a problem. Because after all, we have to, quote, level the playing field so that those who are coming in who are not white are actually taken care of first. And so what we're seeing occurring in America, and especially in this hospital, is that we see an inequality that is being put in place and becoming official policy.

So if you thought that that's not a problem, well, here's the reality: 5,100 community hospitals in America. Small number, large number? Here's the real deal: last year in the community hospitals, there were 34 million visits. 34 million visits.

So I would assume that perhaps you or one of your family members visited a medical facility, a hospital sometime last year. And if you did that, can you imagine going through those doors with an urgent medical problem and being told you have to, quote, move to the side because of your race?

We saw that happen in America for over 100 plus years. And it happened to Black people. The reality is this: America cannot return to that kind of position where racism is being officially embraced in America—by policy, by law, and by practice. And this is what she's been fighting against.

And they decided that they were going to demote her because she was, as they called it, accused of internal whiteness.

Linda J. Hansen: Oh, it's so sad. And you and I have talked so much about your experiences as a Black person growing up in America, understanding the civil rights movement and the sadness you feel about what has happened—that we are just taking such a giant leap backwards.

And I often say, too, that if America was so systemically racist, why are people of all different races coming here from all over the world? And this has been the history all along—that we bring people from all over the world because we have had a colorblind society.

Has there been instances of racism? Of course. Was there racism in the past? Yes. That’s why we work to correct it. That’s why we have worked to have a colorblind society. And now it's changing all again. Could you address that?

Kevin Fobbs: Sure. You know, the thing we see in America—and again, it goes back to what Dr. Castillo was talking about—we see America actually heading backward, but backward in a way that is more odious than what we saw occurring over the last 150 years. And the reality is that because we've got social media, we're seeing the enforcement police—i.e., Twitter and Facebook and others—that are basically enforcing this racist behavior and racist policies.

And so anybody like a Dr. Castillo, or even myself—I’ve been canceled many times. And I'm proud of it, because you know what? I don't mind standing up for freedom. And I certainly don't mind standing up for the truth or for the Word of God. And as Christians, and as conservatives, we have that obligation—she does. And she believes that she has that obligation as well.

And you can't wake up in America right now, as a business owner or as an employee, and look in that mirror and say that I can't be active for my business or for my family. You've got a decision to make, I believe. You have a decision. That decision is whether or not you will say, “I will stand in the arena for my family, for their freedom,” or “I will stand on the sidelines and let my family and my freedom become part of the enslaved.”

And that’s a decision. Because I'm not going to say what your decision should be. I just know what your decision should be if you believe yourself to be an American who believes in freedom, and who believes in equality—not equity, but equality—and the content of character being the standard that is used, openly and honestly, as opposed to looking at the color of your skin and saying that at the instant of birth, you are a criminal.

That's what critical race theory is saying to business owners, to employees, to those who are buying or purchasing a service—that if you're white, you have to make certain that you understand and accept that. And parents especially—their kids are being told, “You must accept that. Go through this training.” And there are trainings and seminars for parents as well.

And they must sign off to that and say that they admit to being born racist. Not a single Black person in America from 1865 until now has had to make that pledge, obviously. But what we’re seeing—this is why I said it’s worse—is that you have an entire societal apparatus being used in every single walk of life to say that Americans of color are either inferior because they’re seen as victims, and Americans who are not of color are racists.

Linda J. Hansen: Well, you know, it’s heartbreaking, too, because it creates such division—division that we worked for so many years in our nation to avoid. I saw a young father speaking to his school board against CRT in the schools and against these divisive teachings. And I really want to alert parents and taxpayers that now that people are complaining about it and are aware, they are renaming these things.

So I know here in Wisconsin, there’s a bill proposed to bring all curriculum online so parents and taxpayers could see everything that's being taught. They can go through all of the curriculum, which—you know, I thought, why didn’t we think of that before? Because honestly, it’s our tax money buying that. It’s our children, our next generation that are being educated there. We should know what they’re being taught. There should be full transparency.

But I saw this young father there with his—I believe it was a mixed-race marriage. One was white, one was Black. I don’t remember which was which, to be honest. But he was saying, “You’re teaching our children to believe that one of us is racist and is oppressing the other, and the other is a victim.”

So it has so many tentacles of divisiveness that are tearing down our culture. You mentioned the business community. Should the business community be working with local and district school boards and PTAs to support anti-CRT campaigns? And why is that important for business and their workers?

Kevin Fobbs: I think it’s so essential that the business community understand what’s happening. I think that if you look at where your employees are going to be coming from, where your customers are going to be coming from, how they are being trained, how they’re being victimized—you have a responsibility as an entity, as part of the community, to ensure that the community you are in as a business—but also as a citizen of that community—is balanced and safe.

Safe from having children being marginalized, having your workers being marginalized, having your customers being marginalized. And in fact, you being marginalized as an owner of a business, because policies that you may have to implement that may be against you eventually will be used by the federal government, by the state government, by state regulators to put more policies or more regulations on top of what you already have to deal with.

But in this case, it's to make certain that, in effect, you're going to have to eat some of the cost—that these people who are now “the victims of racial inequality,” because of this theory, that your white employees have to kind of back away and let those who are “victims” become employed or, in fact, promoted. And in some cases, actually given benefits that should be equal across the board.

Now, there are a million different ways that that’s going to happen, but you have to make certain—I think as an employer—to get involved with the citizen groups, especially the PTAs. Because the PTAs are made up of parents who are not just community-minded, but they’re also interested in the kind of education and the kind of policies that will affect their children’s education going forward.

So you don’t want to see a child being discriminated against from kindergarten through grade 12 and then suddenly being disengaged from their privilege—privilege as an American, not as a white or Black American, but as an American. You don’t want to see that happen because it will have a negative impact on your business, but especially on your employees and those who are your customers.

So you have an obligation, I think, as an American and as a business owner in America to be able to find out what the truth is. Get involved with these parent groups and community groups that are fighting for equality and actually fighting to not be canceled in America—because guess what? You will be canceled eventually.

That is how communities across the country are beginning to see the results of CRT policies and statutes and the Biden administration.

Linda J. Hansen: Well, and it’s not just CRT that ends up canceling and dividing. Before we were recording, you and I were talking about what was happening in Australia. In Australia right now—we're recording this in August of 2021—the national army, the national military, has been called out to enforce lockdown orders. And they're very, very restrictive lockdown orders. They have literally sent out military members to communities.

I've seen videos of the helicopters overhead where they're saying, “Get back in your house.” It's forced lockdown enforced by military strength. And to think that this could happen in America—it's heartbreaking. But it could, if we do not stand up as citizens. They never thought it would happen in Australia.

I was listening to a lawmaker from Australia who is working very hard against this, and it's just heartbreaking. Another instance that we found of extreme cancellation—if people don't abide by what the government wants—you and I were talking about Pakistan. Pakistan has been disabling the SIM cards...

Maybe you know more about this than I do, but making it so that people can't have communication through their phones or computers—or be able to communicate and get information—if they won’t be vaccinated. Now, remember, it doesn’t matter if you’ve had the disease and have immunity or maybe you have a physical reason not to be vaccinated. It’s like it doesn’t matter.

And it’s really concerning and very telling to see what’s happening with this and the type of coercive enforcement of those mandates. And like you said, if we don’t get involved, it will come to us. It’s not long before that hits every community here.

So what would you say in terms of how not only racism but the cancel culture overall is impacting the business community? And how can employers talk to employees about this without inciting a riot in the workplace, but also helping people to understand that this is not about Republican or Democrat?

It’s not. And I don’t even like the labels liberal or conservative or something like that. I don’t really like the labels, but it’s about policies that promote freedom or policies that prohibit freedom. And we really need to help people have those talking points.

I believe that’s what I try to do all the time with Prosperity 101 in every way—to help employers and others be empowered to speak of these issues without that partisan divide, and just helping people understand it affects your daily life. This is your freedom we’re talking about.

Kevin Fobbs: You know, one of the things that businesses can do—and I think it’s important for us to emphasize this in terms of NAACP 2021—is that if you think about building a house, I was the president of Habitat for Humanity Metro Detroit for about a decade. And we had toolkits.

And so I believe that the business community should use that as an example. And that’s what we’re working on, too. We’re working on something that we’re calling the Parental and Business Uncanceled Educational Freedom Toolkit. And that will allow—we're creating tips for parents, for businesses, for employees, students, and supporters—to help build and secure what moral, legal, and also elective power really looks like and what you should do in a real, on-the-ground way to make certain that you secure those freedoms in your community.

And that’s something that we’re working on. So you can actually write us at naacp2021canceled@gmail.com if you want to get more information. And we’re going to be putting that out on our website too, which is naacp2021.com

But I think that’s one thing. And there are other organizations that we’re going to be partnering with to also, again, expand the reach so that you have alternatives that you can offer your employees. Because as you mentioned, Linda, we don’t want to accuse people of being, quote, one way or another. I think information is power.

And the way that you look at information is: what are we dealing with, so we can acknowledge that there are some challenges—but also, what are the solutions?

And I have to say, the solution that the Biden administration is presenting—we have to look at this with clear eyes, and I think businesses should, too—is that they believe that a person should be discriminated against because of their race or sex. That’s what is part of the EO (executive order) that was initiated by Biden.

He believes that a person’s race or sex makes them responsible for past transgressions of that race or sex. And that a person should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her sex or race.

Now, those four or five things I just mentioned are the four or five things that you should be able to tackle and be able to say “dismiss,” but dismiss in a way that shows you’re not against another person or another, quote, race or ethnicity.

But you have to understand that, as it says in the Bible, the past is dead. That's the reality. But the reality is we can learn from what we are as Americans build towards the future that Reverend King has envisioned for us in 1963, but also look, and, and, and tackle these in a way that is actually.

Positive and constructive and not accusatory. And those are just some tips you'll learn more from our organization and as we go forward. But I think those are some of the tips that you can just use just in regular off campus, as they say, off campus gatherings with your staff and just listen, but also not refuse to take responsibility.

For something that you're not responsible for. I think that's the first step, because when you begin to accept something, then you begin to tolerate anything. And that's something that's a recipe for disaster in America. 

Linda J. Hansen: Right? It's the frog in the pot of boiling water. 

Kevin Fobbs: Right. 

Linda J. Hansen: Exactly. Exactly. Well, I know our time is coming to a close but you have given some good tips for employers.

I would just like to say too, for employers who are being forced in one way or another to mandate whether it be vaccine or mask mandates, or whether it be CRT mandates or any of these things that do not align with their worldview or the way that they wanna run their business, which has always been lawful until these mandates.

I would say to these business owners, be bold. I've interviewed a few on my podcast, Lavita, Mike Whalen from the Heart of America Group. He has machine shed restaurants and things. I've watched as business owners from around the country have stood up and become like the lightning rod.

Shall we say that your courage is contagious. And if we stand up and say, no, I'm not going to allow that teaching to be taught in my workplace. No. I'm going to go to the school board and I'm not going to stand for this being paid for, with my tax dollars, no. I will not close down my business this time.

I love the guy in California recently. Who, did you hear about him? He actually put a sign up that said, I know there's people listening, so I'm not trying to offend any listener, and I know COVID is real. I know people who are struggling with it, people who have passed away with it.

I'm not at all demeaning the severity of the illness and its effect on some people. However, this gentleman was just done with the lockdowns and he said, give proof of your unvaccinated status or something to come in the restaurant. And I was like, whoa, he's bold. You know? He didn't wanna be canceled.

We can't all change everything, but we can do one thing. And we can do the thing that is, next to do. We can't do everything. But, you're doing something by creating this organization and inviting people to be a part and helping them have resources. A toolkit, shall we say, helping them to have the resources to make a difference.

So I just really wanna thank you for that because I know that this National Association for the Advancement of Canceled People goes beyond race issues. It is so much more than race. We've tackled race predominantly in this particular episode, but I know the organization goes far beyond race. So, who would you love people to contact you, the people that you feel would be most benefited from contacting your organization?

Kevin Fobbs: Well, for example, we are really, really focused on a couple major areas like pro-life. Pro-life issues and pro-life men who have been canceled because we have actually one of our programs called Real Men Defend Life. And it's actually defending our fathers in America who have been put to the sidelines in terms of their responsibilities and in terms of the culture.

And so the culture of fatherhood actually has been marginalized and our organization is working with fatherhood groups on that as well as those in the entertainment community too. The business community, especially businesses that are either in journalism, like my particular editor at Communities Digital News.

She has been canceled since 2012 and she's been a fighter for the freedom of press and for the freedom of our conservative values. And she's like a lot of other entertainment or those who are in journalism and have been canceled by the mainstream media and by liberals especially. So those are some of the other areas that we are very, very focused on.

And why. This conference that we are launching in the fall, it's called No More Canceled People. It's a national summit conference where we will be putting together a plethora of other areas and people and leaders and people, just regular families and people on the ground too, who've been canceled. But the most important part I wanna add, keep that in so that you understand.

If you live in urban America. You've been canceled. If you live in Chicago, if you live in Detroit, if you live in Cleveland or in Brooklyn or Minneapolis, you have been canceled by liberals and and you have been made to be invisible. So we are focused on you as well. And so we've been inviting those families, those organizations that have been canceled in America by liberals before the word canceled even became part of our American language.

That we are with you. We are gonna be supporting you and you will be evident at our National Summit conference as well.

Linda J. Hansen: Well, that's really great because, as we said it was, it's not just about race, it's race, it's sex. It's about our medical opinions. It's about our beliefs about what should be taught in schools.

It's religion. We are being separated and canceled if we don't carry the message of the elites, that really want to do harm to our nation and tear our culture apart. So, this conference, No More Canceled People. I'm sure some of the listeners are thinking they should definitely go to that.

So could you please share your website again? 

Kevin Fobbs: Sure. It's pretty, pretty simple. It's NAACP2021.com. That's naacp2021.com and we're excited to hear from you. We're excited to, if you have a challenge in America, you've been canceled, let us know we are gonna be there working with you and with a lot of our partners and our supporters because we owe it to ourselves to wake up each and every morning with the understanding that we refuse- we absolutely refuse to be canceled in America. 

Linda J. Hansen: Very good, very good. And you know, I thought of one other way that businesses are canceled when people boycott. So if you're a business owner listening now and you have felt that you may be boycotted or maybe you have been canceled because you know you've had to endure the lockdown, maybe you are in some of those urban cities where shoplifting is fine and you're place of business has been ransacked and just ridden with crime. 

These are all ways that we are canceled. And so please reach out to Kevin. You know, we need an army of individuals all doing something that they can do. I've said before in my podcast, there are more of us, meaning Americans who love our freedoms.

We have different views. We have different political views, we have different backgrounds, ethnicities, everything. But we've always believed that in America there is equal opportunity, not necessarily equal outcomes, but America provides that equal opportunity for everyone and I thank you, Kevin, and to all the people involved with your organization that are working to make sure that all Americans have equal opportunity and no one is canceled.

So thank you for being on the podcast today. 

Kevin Fobbs: Thank you, Linda, for having me. It has been my pleasure.

Linda J. Hansen: Thank you. Thank you again for listening to the Prosperity 101 podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a great review. Don’t forget to visit Prosperity101.com to access the entire podcast library, to order my newest book Job Security Through Business Prosperity: The Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck, or to enroll you or your employees in the Break Room Economics online course.

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