THE FORGE: Hope, Inspiration, Direction – In Business & In Life – with Cameron & BJ Arnett – [Ep. 228]

Linda J Hansen: Welcome. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Prosperity 101® Breakroom Economics Podcast. My name is Linda J. Hansen, your host and the author of Prosperity 101® Job Security Through Business Prosperity: The Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck, and the creator of the Breakroom Economics online course.

The book, the course, and the entire podcast library can be found on Prosperity101.com. I seek to connect boardroom to break room and policy to paycheck by empowering and encouraging employers to educate employees about the public policy issues that affect their jobs. 

My goal is to help people understand the foundations of prosperity, the policies of prosperity, and how to protect their prosperity by becoming informed, involved, and impactful. I believe this will lead to greater employee loyalty, engagement, and retention, and to an increased awareness of the blessings and responsibilities of living in a free society. Listen each week to hear from exciting guests, and be sure to visit Prosperity101.com. 

Thank you so much for joining with me today. We appreciate you taking time for this podcast and we know that you have a lot of choices when you listen to podcasts or you view them, and so thank you for making time for this. Before I begin the interview, I'd like to encourage each of you to go to the website, Prosperity101.com and sign up to become a Prosperity Partner that will help us to keep these podcasts on the air. And also please go to the show notes in this episode to see our Strategic Partners. 

But for the sake of time, I'm just going to let that be in the show notes because my guests today have a limited time and I really want to respect their schedules, but I'm so delighted to have with me today, Cameron and BJ Arnett.

Now, listeners, if you have not seen the movie, The Forge, you must go. It is a must-see film. And I've had the pleasure of interviewing Cameron and BJ earlier this spring before the movie was released. And we had met at a conference in Florida and had an impromptu interview, and we talked about what The Forge was and about your career and how you all met.

But I really wanted to make sure I could have you back on so we could encourage listeners to take their families, their loved ones, their friends, and go see this important film. It was released into theaters this week, and it is the type of film that will bring blessing to anyone who sees it. It's real. It's raw, and it hits on so many issues we all face as we navigate challenging seasons and relationships in life. 

So Cameron and BJ Arnett, I welcome you back to the podcast, and I'm just excited to hear you talk about The Forge, the ministry of that film, and your overall ministry in Hollywood and in the filmmaking world, but also with Christ over career, the ministry that you two both have as well. So first, let's talk about The Forge and thank you so much for being here.

Cameron Arnett: Wow. Thank you so much for having us, you know, what you said so far about the film, sometimes, you know, as we interviewed with you prior to it coming out, you know, it's hard to really explain to people the kind of impact and the kind of film that this is.

And I think what happens sometimes, too, is because you're in the film, it's hard for you to really deal with the importance of it because, you know, people think that, you know, just saying, hey, come to see my movie. But the reality of it is that now that you've seen it, you understand how we feel about it and what we know it is and how much of a tool that God has given us to give to the church, the body of Christ, and him calling them back to what we were left here to do, which was to make disciples and how vital and how vibrant and how kinetic and how, you know, over the top this message is and how it's depicted, you know in real form. 

So I'm really glad that you got to see it. And our prayer is that the body of Christ would just saturate, you know, the theaters with, you know, going over and over and over again because it's really a message that's so powerful, that is life-changing, and that is the church being empowered by God again real-time and being able to see it on screen what it looks like, you know. So we're extremely grateful and humbled and honored to be a part of it.

BJ Arnett: Humbled and excited. You know, it's a timely message as my husband said. We're in a season in this nation and in this world where loving kindness and tender mercies don't really come forward.

And with discipleship, which is the core of this film, it's so important to understand we love using the word mentorship and that is good. But discipleship has to put Christ first. It’s looking like Christ, being like Christ, loving the unlovely moments in ourselves and in those around us. 

And sometimes it can be in your own home sometimes it can be, you know, so close up on you, you just don't want to deal with it. But discipleship means that you step outside of your comfort zone and you pull someone to the place that God found you and then released you into the atmosphere as a believer.

So, this for us is, you know, a true understanding because this is where God started us in ministry together. We pastored almost two decades and God called for discipleship. So I don't know about you, but getting up at five o'clock, no, getting up at 3:30 in the morning and opening your doors at 5 AM every day. Boy, we're not talking Sunday, Wednesday. We're talking every day.

Cameron Arnett: For years, yeah.

BJ Arnett: For years to help raise up a generation because that's what God said. That is what it looks like. And whether you like it or not, we're part of God's army. So we're not here to say, well, maybe not today. We're a part of the army. So it's kinda like when the general speaks, you move.

Cameron Arnett: It's command. 

BJ Arnett: It's a command.

Cameron Arnett: Yeah, and it has never changed. Unfortunately, is that the atmosphere of the church allowed itself to change. You know, we start opening more churches, we start doing all these things, but we left off the raising, building, growing of people duplicating the Christ inside of people, getting them to understand that they're supposed to be Christ in their own skin. 

You know, the original apostle, the thing that was said about them, hey, you know, they noticed that they had been with Jesus, you know, and sometimes now, in today's perspective, people have, don't even notice, they don't even know that you go to church unless, you know, you make that crazy, you know, do you know Jesus statement to them?

And they're like, oh, okay, you want to tell me about him kind of thing? Well, you know, I haven't even realized that you knew him, you know, that kind of. So discipleship is different being like him. In every way where people can know that you are part of his answer to them by the way that you treat them.

BJ Arnett: Yes.

Cameron Arnett: You know, by the way that you are on an everyday basis because our lives should not look the same and there should be something so different about you that somebody says, you know what? I don't know what it is about you, but you're different. What is it? And they're asking a question. And then you're saying to them, well, it's because I know Jesus is because of who he is and what he's done in my life, that kind of thing.

And so this film so shows that in plain form, because how the Bible gives us a Jacob and Laban perspective, the people become what they see, what's before them. And so we pray now that people can take a look at this film, look at it, and see what the church truly is, what it's supposed to be in the mainstream, you know, in everywhere, you know, America, around the world, not in just the four walls of the church, and be that answer that we're supposed to be, become ingested, breathe it in, see it and mimic what you see, you know, we're told to imitate him like dear children.

So that's really what the film is about and how it rolls out in front of you. And so that's what we've been, the testimonies have been coming back.

BJ Arnett: Oh, my goodness. 

Cameron Arnett: You know, it's only been three or four days. 

BJ Arnett: Right. 

Cameron Arnett: And the testimonies have been coming back, people getting saved, people coming back to their homes, you know, prodigals coming home, all those kind of things that are happening because of a movie, you know?

But it's because it's so anointed by the Holy Spirit, so written by the Holy Spirit, so acted by the Holy Spirit, everything has, is dripping with the Holy Spirit in it, and it's undeniable and so people are seeing, we're seeing the results of it and so again grateful and honored to be a part.

Linda J Hansen: Well, it's true that it was really anointed and we made a point to go on opening night because we wanted to support you and I called you from the parking lot and told you—

BJ Arnett: Thank you so much.

Linda J Hansen: --what I was thinking we were really moved in, and I thought well, I'm just going to leave this crazy voicemail message for our friends and let them know how beautiful this movie is. But I really wanted to have you on to promote it again, because not only is it really showing people how a Christian can live out life and how we can share our faith, and how when we are faithful to Christ, it absolutely should show through to others.

But I really loved a couple of different aspects of the film as well. And one was your character, Cameron, who here you were president of this company, Moore Fitness. And you really exemplified in the film how well Christ can be shared in the business setting. And, you know, I think sometimes Christian employers are afraid to speak of Jesus or they're afraid to be bold about their faith. 

But the example in this film was so beautiful because it wasn't like you just went around telling people, oh, I'm a believer, you know, and you have to think what I think. It was the life of this gentleman who spoke and the way that your character treated his employees and treated the customers and the integrity and the honesty and the care and commitment to all the employees. And especially to this young man, who was, you know, the star of the film as well. And it really showed the importance of loving others, even when they may not feel like loving themselves.

Cameron Arnett: Yeah. It's very good. Go ahead.

BJ Arnett: No, you bring up an extremely good point when you say a gentleman. A gentleman looks like something. He walks a certain way. He speaks a certain way. He eats a certain way. He shakes a hand a certain way. He looks at you a certain way. That in itself can draw someone to ask a question of, hey, why are you like you are? Which is what Joshua Moore, my husband's character exemplifies and draws this young man to him. Now that's biblical in itself, right? 

Linda J Hansen: Right. 

BJ Arnett: You've got to be something in front of folks. You know that, you know my, you know, I'm a college professor. My kids say you gotta be authentic. You got to be authentically Christ in front of them. 

Cameron Arnett: Yes. And it's something and I say this all the time, you know, to people, it's like, this is not what I do. This is who I am. And so it's a being Cameron Arnett, being Joshua Moore, which is one of the same to us, Janelle and BJ which is one and the same. And we see and understand by the word of God even that the marketplace is the church.

You know, Jesus did most of his ministry in the marketplace, not in the synagogue. As a matter of fact, he had an issue with the people in the synagogue and he walked around in the marketplace, loving the people. 

And so we're understanding that the modern-day church, the modern-day people of God, are going to be found in the marketplace where the people are. Because the reality of the situation is that everybody's vying for their lives in the marketplace.

You know, we spend most of our time in the marketplace. We're working, you know, we're doing whatever. And it's this, you know, you can't serve two masters issue. Everybody's trying to find this thing that sustains them, or they think called money, so-called mammon, and they're out there, you know, spinning their wheels, all their lives, 24 hours a day almost, and they're killing themselves. 

And we, as people of God, that are filled with the Holy Spirit need to be in the marketplace as people that can draw them to their real sustenance, to their real author, to their real source. And that's what this is all about, and we see this in Joshua Moore, we see this in Janelle, we see this in the business of Moore Fitness, that while we are living our everyday lives, producing materials, whatever, food, clothing, you name it, for the masses, we're also taking in the masses and turning them into people that God is, wants to be inside of you because he sent his son for each and every person.

And some of them will never come in the four walls of the church. But we have to go and set up new tents, if you would, elsewhere, that have nothing to do with coming to church, but being the church in the marketplace. And we find that, and I love how, you know, Stephen and Alex wrote that, because nowhere in it do you find the four walls of the church. You find the church outside the four walls, being themselves, and therefore changing lives. 

BJ Arnett: Yes.

Linda J Hansen: So true. And so the listeners understand who you're talking about the Janelle in the story. So listeners, if you haven't seen the movie or you didn't hear the other interview that I did with Cameron and BJ in this film as well in several others, they actually do play husband and wife.

So, their interaction is obviously very natural. And I remember in the last episode, you said it was fun because you get to get paid to kiss, so that's cool to kiss each other. 

Cameron Arnett: Yes, indeed.

Linda J Hansen: So, but you know, in there is relationships. And so listeners, too, I want you to go back to the previous episode that I did with Cameron and BJ, and you can hear the unusual story of how they got together. And how Cameron has been blackballed from Hollywood and how God has led in the career and stuff.

But for the sake of time, we're not going to go into all of that right now, but he talks about relationships and in this film, The Forge, not only do we have the marketplace relationships happening that are so, so important, and I just feel so strongly, like God calling me more into the Christian business marketplace. 

God calling Christian leaders into the marketplace more, helping them to understand that is where we need to be because that is where the people who need Jesus are. But the other point of this movie, too, that is so incredibly beautiful and so well written is the relationships.

You know, you have a mother who's crying out in prayer for her son, who just, you know, doesn't really want to grow up yet, not accepting responsibility. And what mother hasn't cried out in prayer for their children, you know? And I found that to be just great. And it was a great example of how she had other women who supported her.

And the Joshua Moore in the character had men who supported him and you see the importance of the fellowship in a body of believers. And this young man was struggling with an issue of forgiveness. I don't want to give away the storyline. I don't, yeah, I don't want to give away the storyline or anything, but you know, we all struggle with issues in relationships.

Everyone does. There's not a person listening to this or a person alive that hasn't had an issue in a personal relationship or their relationship with themselves. Or of course, we all are sinners in need of a savior. So we all have needed to develop that relationship with Jesus Christ in order to have true peace.

And this film really shows the metamorphosis of sorts that happens when we can lay it down at the foot of the cross and what God can do even in a business, like there's things that happened in Moore Fitness in the film that, you know, there's so many stories like this from business owners I know where God just intervened and answered prayer, and it's just an incredible story.

So I really encourage all listeners to go to it and take your friends buy, there's a opportunity at the end of the film, and please listeners stay tuned. I'm one of those, because I know so many people in Christian filmmaking and broadcasting, I always stay till the very, very end and watch all the names and the credits and everything.

So, listeners, I encourage you to stay to the end and watch all the special things at the end of the movie, but you will be given an opportunity to pay it forward as well. There'll be a QR code on the screen where you can pay for someone else to go to the film, maybe someone who wouldn't be able to.

And so, when you think of all the hurting people around and our nation is in trouble, BJ, you brought up the really good point that our nation is really struggling right now. You know, I just did a podcast interview on election integrity. 

Well, yes, we need to focus on that and we all need to be engaged and that, but you know what the bottom line is we are in a spiritual war for the heart and soul of every citizen and for this nation and the nations around the world. So we are going to fight this with prayer and that is the first thing that we can do and serving Christ with all our heart and really trying to share him. So this film is a beautiful example of that. 

I do want to let the listeners know why you have a shirt on that says Christ Over Career, which I, we focused on a little bit in the last episode, but it's just a great phrase and I love your focus with this. So could you share a little bit about that as well?

Cameron Arnett: Well, you know, Christ Over Career exactly is The Forge coming together. You know, the whole point of Christ Over Career is that the world wanted me to compromise Christ, wanted me to do the whole partial body nudity in Hollywood and everything else. I had got my first television series and they just wanted me to do the insidious aspect of who they are.

And I said, no. You know, because I was a Christian, and when I thought that was going to be okay because they wanted me to do the acting, but not the nudity that I thought it was going to be fine. And the Lord said, no, you have to shun even the appearance of evil because people will think that is you.

And so I dropped it, left everything, lost everything. And God showed me that the whole point of it is putting Christ first, and making sure that there is no compromise between, you know, who you are, what you do, how you are for the sake of fame and fortune. And God showed that, in the process of that, he was actually having me sow my life as a seed.

And the change, the transformation, he allowed me to really unravel or let my life that I had put together unravel. And then he began to put everything together that he wanted and showed me that through the obedience of saying no, how faithful he would be. 

And it became an understanding of teaching people that it's not really a matter of, you know, thinking that you can get whatever you want, do whatever you want while you're a Christian, but the reality of that, all the stuff that God has put on your heart to have and to want and to be, you can have that, but if you, but you got to put him first.

And he is so faithful, he unraveled everything that I put together and then gave me the life that he intended. And that's what Christ Over Career is all about. It's a relationship with a King and his kingdom. And once you have that relationship and you understand that he commands and we follow, and those commands are really for our benefit.

We think that, you know, somebody is just telling us what to do and what not to do. No, the whole point is that we are in a fallen world and we don't know how, it's like you lose the use of your legs. Somebody has to teach you how to walk all over again. It's not like you don't have the limbs, but they don't know what to do. The normal thing that they're supposed to do. 

And we, as people, our souls fell. You know, and he came and he revived, he gave us new life. And now we have to learn how to live all over again. And you have to give yourself to the only one that can teach you and show you, which is a written word in the Holy Spirit that can show you how to walk all over again.

And once you make the decision to do that, the eternal life, the God kind of life, the days of heaven on the earth life, is what he gives you in return, but you won't know that until you practice this radical obedience to whatever he says, to whatever it looks like, because he's actually trying to get heaven over to you. It's just that your finite mind doesn't understand that. 

So give up to Christ. Surrender. That's what it's all about. And you'll end up seeing that God has, He said, I know the plans that I have for you, to give you an expected end, to give you the well-being and we have to trust Him for that. And that's what we see. Then that's what Christ Over Career is because it's a result of that kind of relationship.

Linda J Hansen: Absolutely. And you know, I loved how you said he has to unravel. Sometimes he has to do that in our lives. You know, I've had that in my own life. We've had it in our family some and things, and, you know, there's no person and that is immune to this. 

So, you know, I usually tell people if you haven't experienced something like this or a relationship difficulty or a faith crisis or something, you must be very, very young because it doesn't take long of living. 

Cameron Arnett: I love that.

Linda J Hansen: Yeah, to come up against something where you go, oh, okay, I'm going to have to face this or deal with this. And then we look and we say, well, I wish I could have handled that better. Or those years could have been different if I had made this choice or if I'd been more obedient or, you know, all these different things. But, you know, the beauty of God's love is that he is a restorer and you know, he restores relationships. He restores our lives in Him. He restores. And it is so beautiful because he wants the best for us. And so often we go running. 

It's like if any of you are parents listening and you can hear your two-year-old, you know, I always think of this story about how, like, you know, these babies come out, they're beautiful and you're loving on them and everything. And then they're two years old and they stand there and stomp, and tell their 200-pound father, no, you know? 

And it's like, that is how, you know, we are with God sometimes it's like. And, you know, here's this two-year-old going, no, I will not. And, you know, it's crazy. And so we just need to look at things more with God's eyes and follow the Word.

And you know, so to keep focused to the interview and keep respectful of your time, I just, you know, any other closing comments for people? And before I forget, too, I want to encourage, you know, this is often going out to business owners and things, and this is a movie about living out faith in the marketplace.

It is about, not only living it in your family, but how to be involved in business as a Christian believer or someone who really cares about being truthful and good and doing business with integrity. So every business owner out there or employees share this with your employer. But honestly, you know, maybe have a movie night, maybe, you know, give a special raffle where people get tickets or, you know, whatever it is, so you can get more people to this film because it is life-changing.

And when we change lives, we change cultures, we change countries, we change families. We change things for eternity. So, do you have any other closing comments?

Cameron Arnett: Well, I just love what you just said there. You know, you changed it for me. It's from the inside out. You change, you know, your spouse may change, your children may change, and it goes out from there. Then before you know it, you've changed nations. 

BJ Arnett: Yes.

Cameron Arnett: And we look at it as a daunting thing, but the reality is that we're in cahoots with the creator of the universe. You know, we're actually allowing Him to do what He wants to do, what He's actually done in Christ, you know, through us, with us. And that's what you're involved in.

And so, please don't look at this as just a movie, understand that it is God speaking to his bride and saying, I want to reboot. I want to re-tool you to, and empower you to live out who you are and in the process, show you how to do business, show you how to grow, show you how to be bold and to get out there and do the right thing and help people.

It has so many lessons of how good God is and how faithful He is when we are faithful to Him. And all He's trying to get over to us is not only to use us in order to help somebody else, but in the process, He's trying to grow us to become someone that can handle the very wealth of heaven itself. It's a powerful film. 

BJ Arnett: It's a powerful film. There are tools that are attached to the film that to help you walk through discipleship, my husband also has a book that is really was delivered to his heart from a question that one of our sons asked and he had to answer, but he answered it by writing a book that says A Good Man.

Cameron Arnett: Yeah, A Child's "I coulda, woulda, shoulda! " Story.

BJ Arnett: But yeah, that first statement, A Good Man. And, you know, your children will ask you that question. If you had to do it all over again, what would you have done? This is how he answered, A Good Man: A Child's "I coulda, woulda, shoulda! " Story.

Linda J Hansen: It's so good. 

BJ Arnett: This is where we answer our children.

Cameron Arnett: They shouldn’t make the same mistakes that we've made.

Linda J Hansen: Right. That's, I've told my kids that I really hope you don't make the same mistakes I've made. I'm sure you'll make some of your own, but let's try—

BJ Arnett: Let them be yours. 

Cameron Arnett: Let them be your own. But, my God, what I've learned, you shouldn't have to relearn because now I’m not giving them down to you and make sure that you have it in such a way that you breathe, become, and have more, be more, even younger than I was, and you can go ahead and just change the whole family legacy and lineage.

Linda J Hansen: Absolutely. And change a culture and a country. And I have that book for my grandchildren, so they're very grateful. 

BJ Arnett: Yes, you do.

Linda J Hansen: And you signed it. Yes. So, thank you. And so, you know, this is a really an important film, too. I just want to touch on this just a little bit, the whole aspect of unconditional love. 

It is just a theme throughout the entire film, and I think that that is something that is so missing in our culture and that, you know, I've had people tell me, why do you still show love to so and so when they have treated you so poorly? And I've said, well, because that doesn't mean I don't love them. 

BJ Arnett: Right. 

Linda J Hansen: I might not love how they treat me, but that doesn't mean I don't love them. Like, God loves them. You know, we're all sinners in need of a Savior. And I look and I think every single person can change.

BJ Arnett: Yes.

Linda J Hansen: Every single person can change. And we shouldn't be judging another person. The judge of our hearts is only God. We cannot judge another person's motive. Exactly.

Cameron Arnett: As long as somebody is breathing, God has an opportunity to reach them and that opportunity is through you. And so, regardless of how much, you know, they've hurt, they've done wrong, whatever, Jesus on the cross says, forgive them, but they know not what they do.

If they knew better, if they knew the God that you know, then they would actually act and be the kind of person that they should be. But that means that they'll learn that person by watching you and by you being that person to them. That's how it works.

Linda J Hansen: Yes. An unconditional love, the kind of love that Christ gives to us. So, thank you so much. 

BJ Arnett: Thank you.

Cameron Arnett: Thank you.

Linda J Hansen: And if people want to learn about the movie, the website, could you give the website?

Cameron Arnett: They can go to--

BJ Arnett: TheForgeMovie.com.

Cameron Arnett: --TheForgeMovie.com.

Linda J Hansen: TheForgeMovie.com. And so, listeners, please do get your tickets, take your families, take your friends, have movie nights as soon as it's available for such a thing.

And make sure like employers, it would be a gift to share this with your employees and show them what it means to have a workplace that is permeated with the love of Christ.

BJ Arnett: Amen. Yeah.

Cameron Arnett: If you're an employer, let me say to you this, if you're an employer, you would be making the biggest mistake if you didn't get tickets for all your employees because this is what will minister to them without you ever having to say a word. 

BJ Arnett: That’s so true.

Cameron Arnett: This is such a tool of God to use to offer for all employers. Yes, it's going to minister to you, but what it will do, how it will revolutionize your business, you won't know it until you see it. So, man, please get involved.

Linda J Hansen: Amen to that. And so, you know, we change a person, we change a company, we change a country, we change a culture, we change a world for eternity. So, thank you, Cameron and BJ Arnett. 

Cameron Arnett: God bless you.

Linda J Hansen: Thank you so much. We'll see you again soon.

BJ Arnett: Bye.

Cameron Arnett: Bye.

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