Robust Growth and National Security – Unleashing American Energy – with Thomas Pyle – [Ep. 253]

Linda J Hansen:  Welcome. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Prosperity 101 Breakroom Economics® Podcast. My name is Linda J. Hansen, your host and the author of Prosperity 101, Job Security Through Business Prosperity, the Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck® and the creator of the Breakroom Economics® Online course.

The book, the course, and the entire podcast library can be found on prosperity101.com. I seek to connect boardroom to breakroom and policy to paycheck. By empowering and encouraging employers to educate employees about the public policy issues that affect their jobs. My goal is to help people understand the foundations of prosperity, the policies of prosperity, and how to protect their prosperity by becoming informed, involved, and impactful.

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 Thank you so much for joining with me today. It is just a pleasure to have you joining us on this podcast. I have a very relevant topic today, energy. But before we begin, I want to say thank you to our Prosperity Partners, those who support us financially, to keep the podcast on the air. If you would like to become a Prosperity partner, please go to prosperity101.com and hit the Prosperity Partner link and you can support us with any amount. We just appreciate your support and I'd also like to thank our strategic partners. You can find information about each one in the show notes. You can find all our strategic partners on our website and in the show notes, so please support them and the freedom economy. 

One of the things that makes the economy run and all of our lives run is a steady energy supply. Nothing can really happen unless we have a good power source and a stable grid. And how do we have that? I don't know if you have heard, but the president just recently released an executive order regarding energy, especially coal. He talked about many energy sources and he has said recently that he is supportive of so many energy sources.

I'm just going to read a quote before we get into our guests. President Trump said, we will develop the liquid gold right under our feet, including American oil and natural gas. We will also embrace nuclear clean coal, hydro power, and every other form of affordable energy to get it done with the goal, we know the goal is energy independence and energy dominance. So today I have one of my favorite guests and if you are a regular listener, you've heard him before. So my good friend Thomas, or Tom Pyle, is the president of American Energy Alliance and the Institute for Energy Research. Tom, thank you so much for being back with me today.

Thomas Pyle: Well, thank you for having me again. It's always great to spend some time with you. And what can I say? The president has basically kept his promise. He's restoring some sanity in our energy policies. And yesterday he continued and I'll emphasize continued, because we've already identified over 50 specific actions that the administration has taken to unshackle our energy producers to make energy and minerals to create an opportunity to unleash our energy potential, which is second to none.

As the president has said, we have more of these resources, these God-given resources than any other country in the world. And we've had an administration prior to this one that had, and we also catalog this over 250 specific actions to bottle up that energy to make it impossible to explore for and produce it.Their policies have led to a very unstable grid, as you mentioned. In your introduction, and compounding that with, and this is important, other blue states like California and New York. We can get into the other executive order he signed yesterday. About that as well. So it's been, it's been an incredible couple of months. You know, I can't believe it's only been a couple of months.

Linda J. Hansen: Not even a hundred days yet. 

Thomas Pyle: I'm so proud of this president. You know, a lot of people wrote his obituary, and it turns out what he was doing in those four years, was working really hard for these three months.You can, can see it, in the quality, and the quantity of work he's done. Not on, just on energy, but on our border wall, and a whole host of things. So, it's been a really good run. 

I'm tired. I don't know how he does it 'cause I just have to sit here and comment about it. But, it's been great and let's get into the details, but just overall, it feels like grownups are in charge again, you know? 

Linda J. Hansen: Yes. 

Thomas Pyle: That's kind of how it feels, so.

Linda J. Hansen: Yes. Yes. And to everybody listening, I mean, you may have, as listeners, you may have disagreements here or there, but I just wanna say don't panic, you know, things have a way of stabilizing.

You know, this is major change. I mean, with the tariffs, with energy policy, with economic policy, different things. We're looking to really reset the global marketplace and really put America back in a place of dominance, economic dominance. We're looking to make sure we go from a debt laden society to one that's,producing, that we are manufacturing, we're producing, we are creating wealth for the average person and allowing, flourishing.

I always say prosperity is not about money. It's about human flourishing and freedom and you really can't have any of that unless you have good energy resources and stability to function, have clean water and clean housing and then it goes on to other applications. But just this week he did the executive order regarding, well, he had several executive orders regarding energy. Where would you like to start with that? 

Thomas Pyle: Well, let me just echo what you said. Disruptive change is uncommon in Washington, but for 40 years, 50 years, the same old, same old has not produced incredibly good results. I agree, don't panic, there's going to be some as he mentioned, some bumps in the road. But this is a critical, important reset especially in areas with trade deficits and, and bringing in sourcing critical things that we need as a society to protect ourselves from enemies. We can't build things if we import steel and aluminum from people who wanna you know, 

Linda J. Hansen: Kill us.

Thomas Pyle: Kill us. Absolutely. Yes, it's hard. It’s hard to get your hands around. The level of disruption in a, in a, in a positive way that's taking place in Washington, but slow and steady, like you said, things will stabilize. There are some important milestones here. The house is incredibly disciplined right now. They passed a budget.

Linda J. Hansen: As much as they can be for Congress. 

Thomas Pyle: Well, a two or three vote majority. I'm shocked at how they have basically said, this is President Trump's agenda. He ran on it and we're gonna deliver for him and he's gonna own it. Whatever the result is, he's gonna own it. But I think, that he's on the right track, and especially with energy. 

Linda J. Hansen: So before you'd go, I don't mean to interrupt, but you said this is President Trump's agenda, but based on the election. 

Thomas Pyle: This is ours. 

Linda J. Hansen: The agenda of the American people, it has been a mandate. So it isn't just President Trump, it's the American people who are saying, we want this. We're tired of the status quo. We are tired of being last. We are tired of being put aside and we are tired of this and we're done. The American people have stepped up. I hope that that's the fire under Congress too, is that they realize they're gonna get primaried. They're, they're gonna be out of office, you know? They're going to have, uh, the tables turned on them a bit if they do not step up and listen to the American people. 

Thomas Pyle: That's absolutely right. And, you're right there. I've been in politics and policy for my entire career and I've never seen a more clear contrast between two visions that the voters had to choose from and they chose President Trump. They delivered every swing state for him because he echoed what they want. 

Linda J. Hansen: Yes. 

Thomas Pyle: Part of what they want is sanity, common sense, secure borders, but then on the energy front you can't emphasize enough the importance of affordable and reliable and stable electricity and energy because it underpins everything. You talk about human flourishing. You can't have human flourishing without energy. 

There are still billions of people in the world who don't have access to basic electricity. Right? They can't read under a lamp at night, right? There are places in the world where children flock to central locations in their towns so that they can read a book at night or whatever. We can't emphasize enough the importance of that. If you look at some of the results of the policies of the previous administration and in states like New York and California and other places where they're still continuing this climate crazy. Right now, con Edison in New York State is asking for an additional $150 a month per rate payer. That's not the whole bill. That's on top of their bill. I mean, who can afford this kind of stuff? And it is a result of these policies that the president has aggressively tried to undo in the first few months here of his presidency.

Yesterday, for example, he made it absolutely clear that this business of locking up our coal in the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and other places in West Virginia, is over. President Biden put a moratorium on the ability for people to access coal resources on federal lands. Gone wiped out.

President Trump has, in his executive order, he said there will be no premature closing of existing coal plants. Right now. Coal provides about 20% of our overall electricity in the United States. That number was projected under President Biden, and if we had Kamala Harris, one, it would've been halved within the next four years at the exact same time demand for electricity is expected to increase dramatically over the next 15 or 20 years. So you had policies in the Biden administration that was taking coal and then eventually natural gas away from us as an option to produce electricity. At the same time, electricity demand was expected to increase.

The president said, no more of this. We're going to preserve the baseline of our coal generation and if we can, and it'll take some work, and it'll take the utilities who are scheduled to close these plants, to retrofit plants, to make them more efficient, more environmentally friendly, and then possibly, and what a glorious day it would be that there potentially could be announcements of new coal-fired plants. Now that's a bit of a stretch in part because of the market. 

It's cheaper to, to build a natural gas plant. But the point is, the government should not be picking the types of energy that we need to run our economy, to keep the lights on to prepare for two important things: AI data centers, power generation needed for that. We have to be competitive in the AI race because our main opponent here is China. And the second is if we're going to bring back all of this manufacturing, you see these announcements of investments for new automobile plants, new steel plants, et cetera. Those are energy intensive.We need more energy for those things as well. By the way, that means very good, high paying, skilled labor type jobs. Those main street jobs that the administration is talking about, bringing back, not only for the sake of having those jobs available, but also for our national security.

So, the coal executive orders, on top of two months worth of executive orders that said, we are no longer going to regulate these in these industries out of business and the executive orders that say we're going to allow people to explore for energy of all forms on our federal lands- those are really important for the future. 

Linda J. Hansen: They really are. One of the things I want to encourage listeners who say, he doesn't care about federal lands, he doesn't care about the environment. The beauty of unleashing this in my opinion, you're the expert, but is being able to say, we have so many new ways now to make sure it's clean coal, it's safe nuclear, it's safe pathways and pipelines for the natural gas and things, because innovation. 

When we can unleash this, we unleash the innovation and there's new things. So it's incredible to me that this is happening. For those who are concerned about energy production and resources being used from federal lands, what would you say to them who are concerned or panicked about the national parks or things like that?

Thomas Pyle: First of all, at no point in President Trump's first term, and at no point in the second term are we talking about drilling in Yellowstone? We're not talking about that stuff. 

People don't understand, or if they do, it's good to remind people the federal government owns well they're the largest land owner in the United States. Almost 90% of Alaska is federal lands, for example. 50% of California is federal and state lands, especially out west. When you get west of the Mississippi, federal land ownership patterns increase exponentially. The offshore area, three miles outside of the state borders is all federal, so the federal government owns too much land, in my opinion and we should probably be working to privatize some of that. 

The President’s talked about utilizing federal lands for housing, for example, which I think is a great idea. None of the wilderness areas, the national parks, the wildlife refuges, the forests, US Forest Service, where we go camping and hiking none of those areas are on the table. It's just a, it's a canard so people can be assured that that's not gonna happen under this administration. 

Secondly, we do it better than anyone in the world. We produce these resources more efficiently, cleaner than anyone else in the world. If you export this tech, the production to Venezuela or other places, they don't care. Their governments are socialists or communist governments. They don't have the same level of concern for these resources that we do. We are, the voters, the politicians are responsive to that.

The third thing is every energy source has trade-offs. You talk about clean, renewable or whatever. Renewable energy also has trade-offs. Lithium ion batteries when they're done, and they go all the time, everyone knows you've got a iPhone, right? You gotta replace it at some point 'cause the battery doesn't work anymore. When you do that, you have to dispose of that. Those are toxic. To produce the Lithium, you know those are toxic right? Ponds and things like that. You bury these windmill blades that don't biodegrade.

The point is that every energy source has trade-offs, and the key is, are we gonna do it here, where we mitigate for the environment better than anyone else in the world? Or are we gonna let others do it and pollute indiscriminately? I am perfectly comfortable with this agenda. It's compatible with a clean environment, and clean water and clean air and access to outdoor areas and everything else. 

Linda J. Hansen: Yeah, I agree. Like I was saying before too, the innovation that will come from all of this makes it even better. 

When, uh, he got us out of the Paris Climate accord back in his first administration, everybody panicked, the media went crazy, and America's carbon footprint went down and China kept building these dirty coal plants. 

Thomas Pyle: So in fairness their plants aren't dirty per se. They're new technology. They call them super critical. They actually are, but the point is, is that the volume, is what we're talking about here. They're building coal plants every week in China.

If we could build coal plants today, we would build them. It's the same. We would have super critical, super clean, low sulfur coal plants. The point is that it's just an ideology versus a technology situation. \

Linda J. Hansen: Right. When we talk about clean too, I just wanna remind people to be watching the Department of Energy. I love the new focus that I'm seeing on opening up the regulatory pathway for the small modular reactors, that are safe, affordable, carbon free. I've talked before about my favorite molten salt reactors, but these reactors can be built on an assembly line and shipped to remote places.

They're, they're just so adaptable and talk about manufacturing. Boom. I mean, this would be amazing. We have these resources and availability of creating a stable power grid. 

One thing that I'd like you to address too, I know we've talked about it before, but people don't realize that when you have these renewables like wind and solar, it is so unstable. It costs more and creates more of a carbon output than to fire up the coal plant or have to react to this unstable grid. So when we can get this combination of stability in our grid with these really great technologies and processes, not only will we have the ability to produce and flourish, but we can do so in a way that really does help our national security because we're not dependent on any foreign nation for these things. It just creates such a boom for all Americans. Can you address that a little bit about renewables and things? 

Thomas Pyle: Yeah. I talked about New York and the reason that they're asking for a rate increase of $150 per household rate payer is because they have basically mandated that their grid be powered by renewables. The result of which is because the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine. They have these things called winter in New York, and then down here in Florida, it's not quite as severe, but the result is that you have to build almost two electricity systems. You have to layer the renewables with backup generation. Those moments when, when the, uh, renewables don't work, you have to come behind them, and in this case it's natural gas. But of course, they won't allow pipelines. They've banned fracking in New York state, which they have plenty of natural gas in New York state, but they won't allow pipelines to be built from Pennsylvania where they have natural gas production to go to bring gas from Pennsylvania to New York. It's that much more expensive to run to power New York State because of their policies. Whereas if they just let the market work and let utilities create an energy mix that creates stability and affordability, then they wouldn't be paying the second or third highest rates in the country.

When you build renewables in the system, you put stress on the grid because it becomes much more complex and much more difficult to manage versus if you had what we call base load. Or dispatchable electricity. That is the plant runs continuously. You're always producing electricity, wind and solar don't do that. So you have to adjust for all these variables. You add more cost it and the list goes on and on and on. 

So a certain percentage of renewables is fine, but once you start getting to the point where it becomes disruptive, then that's where the added cost comes. That's where the added complexity comes the duplicity that you build into the system.

So renewables are not the best source of electricity generation. It's just a fact, and this president recognizes that, and what he's attempting to do is to say, no, we're gonna go back to a system where the people who are experts at the system should run the system. As opposed to bureaucrats at the EPA. Or the Department of Interior or wherever, right? It's a very refreshing change. 

The other thing the president did yesterday was sign, or two days ago, was sign an executive order that said, we're actually gonna investigate states and localities to determine whether or not their regulations, their mandates, their subsidies for renewables, whether it is, are actually legal, meaning they support with the constitution, are they violating preemption laws? The federal government has certain things that preempt states and we're gonna look and see if they're placing unnecessary barriers to the marketplace for things like coal, natural gas, the nuclear that you mentioned and things like that. So they're basically putting California and New York, Massachusetts, some of these other blue states on notice that they need to be prepared to defend their policies. That is also refreshing.

Linda J. Hansen: It is, and when you were talking about that too, you talked about subsidies. I know that that was one of the things we wanted to talk about. Saying that if we can change that structure of the subsidies, it would really help to unleash really sensible energy policy. So maybe touch on that a little bit before we need to close. 

Thomas Pyle: Yeah, unfortunately that is not something that President Trump can do by himself. Right. He needs Congress to do that. This week the House and Senate are wrapping up the budget which is the first step in being able to debate and pass what's called a reconciliation bill.

Unfortunately Congress used to pass laws, but now they don't. Now they have to rely on these random, weird little tweaks in the procedures.The reconciliation used to be an opportunity for Congress to modify the budget after the budget passes. It requires only 51 votes in the Senate. Republicans have 53 votes in the Senate. plus, JD Vance, the vice president, can break ties. 

President Biden, during his term, passed a mega reconciliation. He called it the Inflation Reduction Act, which of course, increased inflation. What he did was put together what experts are estimating over $1 trillion, possibly $2 trillion in giveaways. You and I pay money, send it to Washington. Then this law, the IRA, hands that money over to renewable companies, in the form of generous subsidies to produce their product, which is an unfair advantage in the marketplace.

In order for us to get back to a place where we're making rational energy decisions, particularly with electricity, congress needs to repeal all of those. That's not gonna be easy because what they've done, the Biden administration, was they approved all these product projects in Georgia, in Arkansas, in Alabama. It was a political strategy to, to move some of these, these taxpayer resources, these subsidies into red states and red districts in the hopes that they can convince enough Republicans to not vote to kill these subsidies. So their entire energy agenda was one of restrictions and politics.

President Trump is producing an energy agenda that says access, affordability, markets. So that's the big difference between the two visions. But congress is notorious for not wanting to give up the goodies. 

Linda J. Hansen: Right. Well, that's where, again, going back to that agenda, the agenda is from the American people. So listeners, this is you we're talking to you that you need to be alert to how your elected representatives are voting and follow the money. We've seen so much uncovered with DOGE. People are out protesting Elon Musk and I just wanna say, so you want the government to waste your money? Like it, it's, it's just beyond me, and they talk about, he is just taking the money for himself. I'm like, President Trump and Elon Musk are working for free? They had that whole interview with a bunch of the DOGE leaders and there are people who are giving up time in their amazing companies to come and help clean up the mess so we can save our nation.

So if people haven't seen that interview where, whatever you think of Fox News or not, there was an interview with Brett Bear and Elon Musk and several of the people that work with Doge, and it blew away that whole mindset that it's just 19-year-old kids in their basement or whatever. These people are incredible leaders are bringing incredible skills to the table and we're seeing this. Hopefully this will also be touching the energy industry and the waste in what is happening with our taxpayer dollars across the board, because it's touching the energy industry as well. So we wanna say our tax dollars should be spent for common sense policies that really help our grid and help people flourish and not be spent for crazy things. 

Thomas Pyle: We have to cut the deficit, north of $30 trillion. The service of the debt loan is the single largest line item of the discretionary budget. It is the single largest line item, just paying interest on the debt. Yeah, it's a killer. And it's really part of why the president has gone to the levels that he has on resetting our global trade agenda, in terms of reducing trade deficits to insource some of those critical, services, products and things, pharmaceuticals, steel, aluminum, but also in part to reset the, the way that the whole world sort of trades with each other. There are strong arguments that we can benefit tremendously from a reset of those rules. 

Linda J. Hansen: Yes, a reset where the values of America, you know, these values of freedom are what is in control, not the global reset that we've talked about from the globalists and World Economic Forum and things. I love the reset that Trump is doing and we talked about having debt you can't pay and things that are unsustainable and every business owner knows that you can't just keep paying out and not taking enough in, every homeowner knows, every family leader, we know this, and eventually there's a problem.

That leads us into what I always ask towards the end of an interview. If you were going to tell an employer the importance of explaining these issues to their employees, how would you recommend they discuss it? 

Thomas Pyle: Well, I would say that President Trump and the Trump administration is treating the government like a business, right? DOGE is a perfect example. When you buy a company, the first thing you do is comb through the books. See where you can cut waste, increase efficiency. That's just a typical, normal business thing to do. It's not extreme, it's not crazy. 

The second thing is that you try to lower your input costs. For most companies, a critical one is energy. You try to lower your energy bills so that you can do more with less. That's just normal business stuff. The whole mindset of bringing in business leaders, Chris Wright, uh, is a perfect example. The first Secretary of Energy who had an energy business, shocker! 

Linda J. Hansen: Yeah who might actually understand the industry. Right?

Thomas Pyle: I would say you bring in good people. That's a key component of running a successful business. You look for waste to be more efficient, and then you try to stabilize those policies so that you create a corporate culture or a small business culture that allows your business to flourish. That's really the approach that the administration is taking to this term. 

Linda J. Hansen: Right. Well, and I appreciate the support and encouragement you've given me over the years regarding my work with Prosperity101® and the Break Room Economics® course, which is evergreen.

I mean, it's really something that applies in every cycle. It's not political and things, but it helps people to understand the basics of how it works in our government and what their duty as a citizen is, and how these policies affect their jobs. So it's just a real starting point.

So employers, if you would like to be able to help your employees understand more about the basic issues happening in America right now, you can see more about that on my website. Prosperity101.com 

I know you have a lot of resources on your websites and I'd like to make sure people know how to contact you and how to view those. 

Thomas Pyle: So, if you think about the Institute for Energy Research in the American Energy Alliance, you think of the institute being the brains. And you think of the alliance being the Braun. The brains in that the institute breaks down all of these energy issues in a way that you can understand it and how it impacts you. That's important because a lot of think tanks in Washington get granular, get macro talk, big numbers and sort of trends and things like that. We try to break it down and say, how does this affect me as an individual? Or a company. Or an economy in that order first. Secondly, the alliance is how you can put that information to use. The alliance has tools like a legislator accountability scorecard so that you know where your elected representative is standing on these issues. Especially with respect to Congress, and also Rulemakings. The President announced that he's going to deregulate. He's got the EPA administrator, Lee Vin, who is incredible pick for that position, has announced 31 specific actions that the administration is gonna take to do this energy dominance thing. 

Those are really important because a lot of the rules and regulations that President Biden passed, impact us directly because it prevents us from being able to choose the types of cars we can drive, or the types of appliances that we can put in our homes. Just yesterday he announced that he's gonna undo all these mandates on showers. Gonna take beautiful long showers again, it's insane like that the founding fathers ever envisioned that the federal government would be involved in what types of appliances, or how many, yeah. It's absurd how much the federal government has gone off the rails in terms of wanting to control us. This is an important thing that the Alliance does, is gives you the tools to comment on these rules and say, Hey, we want more of this, and comment on the Hill and say, Hey, we want you to eliminate those subsidies.That's what we do and the institute is Instituteforenergyresearch.org and the alliance is americanenergyalliance.org. 

When you get onto our websites, you'll get the little popup to sign up. Just do it. 'cause you're gonna benefit from it. You don't have to read everything but you, if you wanna know about this and how it impacts you and what you can do about it, we're a great resource for that. We're all very busy. We don't have time to sit around and debate these issues or follow all the issues.

So you trust us, your listeners can trust us to give them information and let them decide what they want to do with it. 

Linda J. Hansen: Do you have any other closing comments before we say goodbye for this? 

Thomas Pyle: Yeah. You know, I'm a huge free trader, but I'm a fair trader. 

Right. And it's very nuanced, right? The folks who are opposing President Trump, ironically, were all about this stuff. But they never had the courage to do any of it. 

Linda J. Hansen: They talked big, you can see all the videos from a long time ago. 

Thomas Pyle: Again, I think I'll go back to what you said earlier, just stay calm and trust that on the other end of this is gonna be a good product in my view. Especially if Congress delivers on President Trump's promises to reduce tax, lower taxes for us. The tips, the overtime, the social security.

Combine the totality of the president's agenda, we're gonna see lower prices, we're gonna see economic growth, we're gonna see more jobs, good jobs. I think we're gonna see all that. But it's not gonna happen tomorrow, right? It took a long time for us to get in this hole, and it's very hard to dig yourself out of a hole. But that's indeed what, in my view, the President's doing, and it all starts, selfishly with energy for me. 

Linda J. Hansne: But again, I just wanna remind people that, you talk again about the President's agenda. This is the American People's Agenda, because we chose overwhelmingly as a nation, for this agenda, and so congress wake up and smell the coffee because, you have people across this nation who understand so much more than they ever did before, and they are active and engaged and they don't wanna take it anymore. You know, we're not gonna take it anymore and we want America back. We want America strong, we want America thriving, and we want America to be the leader, for freedom, but also the leader for energy, the leader for education, the leader across the board.

Because when we do that, we can also then help truly help other nations and other people in the world. That is what is going to make everyone stronger and more free. So, thank you Tom. 

Thomas Pyle: Speaking of coffee. Thank you for getting up so early to do this for me. Well, I gotta go have some coffee right now.

Linda J. Hansen: This was a, this was an early one. It's great, and because of schedules, I ended up not being able to do it in my normal location, so the lighting has changed a lot. 

Thomas Pyle: Oh, it looks beautiful there. I wanna visit. 

Linda J. Hansen: Yeah, it's beautiful. Wanna visit? It's actually beautiful visiting a relative. Well, thank you, Tom. We look forward to having you back again. 

Thomas Pyle: Absolutely.

Linda J. Hansen: Thank you again for listening to the Prosperity 101® Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a great review. Don't forget to visit prosperity101.com to access the entire podcast library, to order my newest book, Job Security through Business Prosperity, the Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck®, or to enroll you or your employees in the Breakroom Economics® online course.

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