Lonely Courage – Demanding Policies of Accountability – with Cathy Scheller – [Ep. 245]

Linda J Hansen:  Welcome. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Prosperity 101 Breakroom Economics® Podcast. My name is Linda J. Hansen, your host and the author of Prosperity 101, Job Security Through Business Prosperity, the Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck® and the creator of the Breakroom Economics® Online course.

The book, the course, and the entire podcast library can be found on prosperity101.com. I seek to connect boardroom to breakroom and policy to paycheck. By empowering and encouraging employers to educate employees about the public policy issues that affect their jobs. My goal is to help people understand the foundations of prosperity, the policies of prosperity, and how to protect their prosperity by becoming informed, involved, and impactful®.

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So with that, I'll get into interviewing our guest, Cathy Scheller may not be someone that you've heard of. Her LinkedIn profile doesn't tell the whole story. On her LinkedIn profile, it says, author, master gardener, vacation rehab and rental addict at Seashells Vacation Rentals.

She's a wife, mother of four, and grandmother of 12. But Cathy is so much more than just the words on the page. I chose to interview Cathy because the experiences her family endured over the last several years that magnify the importance of leaders of integrity and adherence to constitutional policies is a story that must be told.

Her name may be familiar to some because her son, Stuart Scheller, was a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Marine Corps when he spoke publicly, in uniform, regarding the need for accountability for all leaders associated with the horrendous withdrawal in Afghanistan, which led to the loss of life for brave American service members, thousands of shattered lives, and the national security threat of our enemies being provided with billions of dollars of U.S. military equipment. You would think military officials would have had to have some level of accountability for a horrible decision and operation. But no.

Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, said this about Stuart Scheller: the only person held accountable in those moments was a Marine Corps lieutenant colonel who had the courage to stand up and say, someone should be held accountable for that. And his name is Stu Scheller.

While the years in between have been filled with hardship and trials, literally and figuratively, in a moment of restorative justice, Stuart Scheller was named a senior advisor to the Secretary of Defense in the new Trump administration. We congratulate him, but we also congratulate and applaud the family that supported him—one, raised him to be a man of conviction and courage, but two, supported him through these times of trial. And your family never lost hope and faith in the America that we all know and love.

So Cathy, I wanted to interview you because of what your family went through, but also, mom to mom, I think a lot of times people don't understand how much policies not only affect paychecks, which I talk about a lot, but they affect families. So thank you so much for making time for this interview and sharing more of your story and the story about your son, Stu.

Cathy Scheller: Well, thank you so much for having me and inviting me to speak. And it's very nice to meet with you and get to know what you're about. 

Linda J. Hansen: We've had some great conversations before we recorded and it's great. I just feel so much kinship in the sense because, you know, we have grown children and I'm also a military mom and just some of those things, but we never went through what your family went through.

So there may be some people who really don't know the story of what happened with your son, Stu. So if you could, I know it's a much longer story than we have to tell here, but if you could give them the overview to frame it for us, and then we could walk through the horrendous policies and what we can do as American citizens to make sure this tragedy that happened to him and the tragedies that happened in Afghanistan will never have to happen again.

Cathy Scheller: All right. So Stuart joined the military, well, 20 years ago now. He was in for 17 years. He went up through the ranks. What do I say? He was a combat infantry officer and my husband's father served in the military and I have nephews that have, but other than that we weren't a real military family.

And so we were a little lost as to what he was doing and he got married immediately. So his wife was more in touch with the military and he wanted to be an adult and didn't want mom and dad there hanging out. That was for the 18 and 20 year olds.

So we were there throughout, but it was tough because he went through five deployments. He's been in Iraq. He's been in Afghanistan. He has been in so many places. He trained the Iraqi military.

He has spent his entire career either being shot at, shooting people, or training people to kill. So they took this gentle-hearted son of mine. I'm not—he had a gentle heart, but he always had a wild...

Linda J. Hansen: Spunky? 

Cathy Scheller: Yes, he did. And the man that you see today was the young man he was before. So he went on in and in the military and it was difficult because we didn't get to speak to him a lot.

He was never at a base. So this wasn't like he's at a base and I can call home on my computer and chit chat. I tell the story once about on a Thanksgiving where the Iraqi police station where he was training was blown up and I knew it at 6 a.m. I didn't get a phone call till about midnight if he was alive or not.

Linda J. Hansen: I know that feeling.

Cathy Scheller: He had one satellite phone and he had to let all—and it was Christmas—and he had to let all of his men call home before he could because he was the officer. And out there in the field, the field officers eat last, their men eat first. They support the Marines. They take care of them. They care about them.

If he wasn't out there doing that, if his head wasn't on a swivel, he did a year of a deployment where he was in there. It was Marines. It was Air Force. It was Army. And he was in charge of helping to do the security for the clearing of all the IEDs. It is a very dangerous job.

So he's invested. He has seen his friends blown up. He has seen men. He's carried dead bodies out. He has fought for 17 years for this country and he cares about our service members. He really did.

He has a farm in North Carolina where they did counseling on his farm for men for PTSD and suicide prevention. A group would come in a couple of times a year. They had school buses out there where they would have racks. So he did care.

And so he is doing real time in his office and he's connected to a lot of people and they're sending him real time videos. And he knew that our military, our Marines had been in a firefight just the day before with the Taliban. And the next day they're told the Taliban is now going to be in charge of you.

He knew what was going down. I spoke with him two days before August 26, 21, when the evacuation went. I spoke with him two days before and he was toting the company line. He toted the company line for 17 years. For 17 years, he stayed apolitical.

He didn't pick one side or the other. He would say, I serve at the pleasure of the president. 

I saw a video come across my phone, the same as everyone else. And I look at it and I see this video of him saying, I've been fighting for 17 years. You know, someone needs to be held accountable. The general's in charge.

I know they serve at the pleasure of the president, but they should have taken their medal and they should have put it down and said, I will resign before I do this. Because most Americans do not understand. The Taliban live in the mountains and they have a fighting season and a non-fighting season.

And had we done this withdrawal during the winter months, our people would have not been molested. They would not have been killed. And the Afghanis who have supported us for 20 years would not have been killed. And we would have gotten everyone out.

It was heartbreaking to him to watch and it angered him. And he just said, someone needs to be held accountable. Well, this video went viral. And you have to understand there's a Christmas tree of order in the military.

And as the judge eventually says to him, you have an impeccable record, impeccable. You were on your way to the very top of the Christmas tree. And I don't think these charges are just. But we'll get into that.

So he did his video. He refused to take it down. It went viral. He stood his ground. They immediately relieved him of command. They immediately sent him in for mental evaluations and they went on to tell every Marine and then every military member that he was mentally unstable and they were not to speak his name or there would be retribution.

But when he went in for his mental evaluation, they said, you're fine. You're just angry. You're just angry. And the loss of life—and you know,

Linda J. Hansen: We were all angry. We were all angry as we watched it. We were all angry and heartbroken to see what our administration, what our so-called leaders had done for American citizens, Afghan citizens and the world overall.

Cathy Scheller: So I called him or I texted him because he wasn't accepting calls. And I said, Stuart, I don't know where you are on your God journey. You know, you can call it God. You can call it higher power. I don't care.

But God spoke through you and you better be prepared because your life is never going to be the same. Those words needed to be spoken and they needed to be spoken by someone in command and they needed to be spoken.

And later, I will hear from thousands of people how they were going to kill themselves that night. We have 22 to 35 suicides per day for our military that have served in that 20-year war. 22 to 35.

And these people—because I put my email out there—and they said I heard his words and it saved my life. I didn’t kill myself. 

Linda J. Hansen: Praise God. 

Cathy Scheller: Right there. And then you had the people like Pineapple Express and all those getting people out by their own money. They said we were exhausted. We had been working for days. We heard that. We knew if he could risk everything he had, we knew we had the power to go on.

And so these things, my mother’s heart—but in the meantime, I'm getting ahead—I didn’t know any of this yet. I see the video. I go in. I show the video to my husband. I said we were in Florida at the time and he's in North Carolina. I said I know where he’s going to be tomorrow and we’re packing our bags and we’re going.

And he said he doesn’t want us there. He is a grown adult man. He does not want us there. I said he doesn’t have to see me. He doesn’t have to speak to me. But he needs to know I’m there behind him if he chooses.

Linda J. Hansen: That’s a mother’s heart. I 100% understand that, which is really part of why I wanted to have you on because it’s an entirely different perspective. As we see all these people who have been so persecuted really by the last administration and hurt and because we've stood up for truth or righteousness in government, we've held up for accountability and we've wanted constitutional government and not this tyrannical regime that we were living under.

And it has taken a toll on so many families. It’s not just yours, but that mother’s heart—there’s something that people always say and it comforts me as a mom, a mother's heart and a mother’s prayer.

And for your business owners who are listening to this podcast or your business leaders there’s something here for you too, because many of you have served in the military. Many of you are leaders now. Moms and dads who are listening, you are leading a family.

What kind of a leader are you? Are you going to lead with this kind of courage and integrity? If you are leading a business, will you lead with courage and integrity?

We have seen our nation decline because people had a lack of courage. Not only a lack of courage, but a lack of wisdom. We often have not known when to speak up. Wisdom is having knowledge and knowing what to do with it.

And so sometimes we have to know, when do we speak up and when should we be quiet? And we can’t do both all the time. So it takes wisdom to know.

And to have someone like Stuart who stood up—I know it not only increased my prayer life, but I immediately tried to reach out to some of these groups who were serving and trying to help and got them on the podcast, tried to get the news out, tried to help people send money to help these organizations—and then pray for Stuart. I mean, it was just a time and there was so much media drama and misinformation, you know, lies. I hate that term misinformation. It is so disguised. 

Cathy Scheller: That’s a kind way of saying we’re destroying somebody’s character.

Linda J. Hansen: Exactly, exactly, purpose. Exactly. They went out to destroy him. So we can see that this took an incredible amount of courage. You and your husband went to support him because you knew that his life had changed, but it didn't get better immediately. 

Cathy Scheller: It only got worse.

Yeah, I got there and we had breakfast with him and I distracted his son and took our grandson over somewhere shopping so my husband could have a man-to-man talk with him. We were thinking, okay, we don't know where this is going, but he has, and then we see his next video where he's saying, you reached out to me, but you've taken my command away and you've done this and you've done that. And the next thing we know, his life just spirals.

They don't reach out and say clearly you've been triggered and something's wrong. The ranks closed in on him. They said nobody speak to him. Nobody contact him. They put out that he was homicidal and suicidal. They went about destroying his name and his character.

His wife and children left town because it was just too much for them with reporters and people, and they went off to another—with mom and dad—to another state. They refused to let him go to see his wife or children. They told him he had to stay. Even though he lost his command, he had to go and sit at a little table. A little card table is what I see in my mind.

We wanted to speak with him, but he was staying away from everyone, including us. And all we could do was pray. And it was a really tough time there because he didn't want us involved.

The military—we called to say, hey, we know you have him there from nine to five. We want to talk to him. "No, you're not his next of kin." We're like, what? And we're like, we think we can. They didn't want us involved. They isolated him. They separated him and then they isolated him.

And then they went about trying to destroy him. And they did that on purpose. And I've had many people contact me over the years and talk to me about psychological warfare. This is what our government did to this man who had served them faithfully for 17 years.

It took me a while to figure that out. He had an entrepreneurial business. They destroyed it. So they took away all of his job. They took away his entrepreneurial business. They separated his wife and children from him. They left him alone.

All of his friends were afraid to speak up because they would lose their career and they wouldn't do that. So he was isolated. They were sending him messages, or suggesting that he'd be better off if he killed himself. Wonder why we have so many suicides. But he wasn't going to do that.

So then they put out that he's homicidal. And it was just absolutely—I’m watching this, and I’m thinking, I can't—I just couldn't believe it. 

Linda J. Hansen: You can't take it in. 

Cathy Scheller: I can't take it in because I'm the person who cries when I hear the national anthem. I've been standing on the side of the road as the hearses go by for military funerals. And I love my country, and my son loves his country. 

Linda J. Hansen: And this couldn't be happening. 

Cathy Scheller: This can't be happening. Couldn't be happening to him. And I quickly realized they were trying to destroy him.

Linda J. Hansen: It's heartbreaking. And, you know, he had to go through a court martial. I know he served jail time. You were telling me he had to serve time in solitary confinement. No underwear, no socks, no outside time.

It's just a horrible thing. And no one wants to see people break rank or defy orders or anything. But speaking up for truth is never wrong. And actually, the Constitution is what we need to adhere to.

And if the people are not adhering to the Constitution in their leadership roles, it's important for us as citizens or other military or government officials to call them out on that. And he was brave enough to do that.

I think it helped to really pivot and set a domino effect. Like you said, people were calling, saying that they decided not to commit suicide because of the bravery he showed. People were stepping up to help because of the bravery he showed.

And we see that now. This lawfare that they did with him—we saw it with President Trump. We've seen it right today and yesterday. A lot of the J6 prisoners are getting out. The pro-life prisoners are getting free.

We've had parents who were objecting to certain things in their school systems being thrown in jail and having their lives ruined because they stood up against something as taxpaying citizens. We're supposed to have the right to talk about these things.

This was just a horrible time in American history. We aided and abetted the enemy and really hurt our own citizens to such a degree.

I saw pain in the military members in my family—even when they're out of the military—but the pain that occurred. All of these people who even retired, retired military, brought back waves of PTSD to watch this tragedy unfold.

The ripple effects—it's like I say, policy has ripple effects all the time. And this was just such bad policy. Another thing I always say is it matters who’s elected. And ideas—ideas have consequences.

So now as we move into a new era, which we're pretty excited about, there's more love of America in this administration. And in this wonderful moment of restorative justice that I just think is amazing, Stu has now been named a Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Defense.

I quoted Pete Hegseth before. He obviously has respect for Stu. And what a great thing. I think that Stu will be able to help this administration and hopefully future administrations to never make the same mistakes again.

Cathy Scheller: He will be in a position to help set some policy. As his mom, I don't know exactly, but I do know he wrote a book, Crisis of Command. And in that book, he outlined what he thought needed to happen for the military to correct itself. And I believe he will be able to implement those plans.

They did take his retirement away, his pension away. But we're hoping that good things will come from this.

And so in the end, was it David and Goliath? He never backed down. He never quit. They took everything from him—everything from him—and he still stood strong through it all.

And so I can't tell you how happy I am. What sustained his father and I through all of this was the prayers from America. Americans came forward from all walks of life.

They donated their $5 and $10 to his defense fund. It was just such an amazing moment. As horrible as it was, it was also so inspiring to see Americans come together.

One man stood alone, and he fought alone. But slowly, slowly, we realized all along that—I hate to say this, and it was America—but the Republicans were the main force standing behind him.

It took me a while to figure that out. I think it took him a while to figure that out. And that's where we are today.

Linda J. Hansen: Oh, you know, it's a great story.

And the book, listeners, I'm just going to repeat the book. It's called Crisis of Command. And it's how we lost trust and confidence in America's generals and politicians, which we certainly did. We certainly have. And he is one who could write about that from a first-person experience, obviously.

I personally want to wish him so much blessing and success and favor in his new position. I think he'll be such an important asset to the Department of Defense. I know that it will not be the same as it was these last four years. You know, as we have already been seeing, we're recording this just a few short days after Donald Trump was inaugurated, we're already seeing merit-based policies coming back to the military.

We don't want to discriminate against anyone, but we want merit-based policies. So this is so important. We're seeing that. And that's already putting new hope into the military. I read just today that military enrollment is on the rise again.

Cathy Scheller: Yes. People have been saying, oh, I don't think you should enlist right now. But it's coming back and it's just going to get stronger. The disastrous evacuation from Afghanistan affected foreign policy, which affected how the world looked at America and how weak we were. And it certainly rolls downhill. 

Linda J. Hansen: It does.

Cathy Scheller:  As you said, the ripple effect is real. And it has affected everything for the past three and a half years. 

Linda J. Hansen: Yes and I'm just so glad that you came on to tell your story because, as I shared with you before we recorded on this podcast, I try to have a mix of people, people that are in the news all the time, that are well known to listeners and viewers, but also everyday people, people who aren't so much in the news but are affected by the policies, who are affected by those laws, regulations, things that come at local, state, national levels.

And this was a big one. I mean, this was huge. It affected not only America and American citizens, but like you brought up, the world. This changed things in the world. The conflicts that we've been seeing around the globe, I don't think would have been happening had we not had this horrendous operation. And I don't believe for one minute that it was incompetence either.

There's been a path of destruction for America, and it's heartbreaking to see. But the more you learn, the more you realize that's actually what the agenda was. So we're just so thankful that God led you and your husband to prayer, led so many people in America to pray and speak up and help out, and that things have turned around.

What God works together for good, all these things, bad things can happen, but good can come from it. And we just need to let it unfold and put it in His hands, and amazing things can happen.

Cathy Scheller: Well, I would be remiss if I didn't mention, for a parent who's had a son in conflict for that long, you never want your child to be the last one and then get killed at the very end. And my heart goes out to those 13 women who lost their child, who lost the future generations that would have come from those children.

And it's not only that, it's the dozens that were injured. I've gotten to know these people personally. The young woman who's in a wheelchair and paralyzed for life from that, or the young man who's missing a right arm and a left leg, and so many others that have scars upon their heart who were there. The damage goes on.

All of the Afghanis that were our workers that were left behind, that had their families killed, and they were killed. It's just so much, so much carnage from that being handled poorly. At times I was wrapped up in our own pain about our own son, but it goes so much further. Our son's getting to triumph. But these others, there's a real loss out there.

And when Biden pardoned General Milley, the salt was poured into the wounds of these parents. This was their only hope, that maybe this man would be prosecuted for what he did to their children. And that was taken away as well. That was.

Linda J. Hansen: Well, the story is not over. The story is not over. That's one thing about God. He can often bring surprise twists and turns. So we don't really know. But we do know that the beauty of truth was revealed. And we thank your son, Stu, for standing up for truth.

Courage is contagious. And his courage really helped a nation. We're thankful for the blessing he's received recently and wish him all the best and favor upon him and wisdom. May he have the wisdom to make decisions and things in a real wise and discerning manner. And blessings for your family too.

It takes time to heal, and may you really prosper and grow. I know you have other family members. They've gone through a whole emotional rollercoaster with all this too. And you are just one family. Yes, Stu is the one who spoke up, but like you said, all these families that were so traumatized and their lives will never be the same, including the Afghan refugees who live in a strange land, ended up being uprooted.

There’s people, not just American citizens, who are hurting. So, listeners, it’s like I always say: ideas have consequences, policy matters. Our American system of government, our Constitution, our way of approaching things in the world, and how, peace through strength, these are amazing principles that have brought freedom and flourishing to millions of people over the years.

And so we just pray for America to be healed, to be blessed, that we could become strong again and that our military members would be encouraged. I want to take a special moment to thank every single military member and family, every law enforcement officer, border patrol, ICE officer, EMT, all these people who work so hard. Firefighters. They work so hard at home and across the globe to protect the interests of American citizens, and we are so grateful.

So, Cathy, we have to close now, but how would people find you if they would like to contact you and maybe even learn more about your vacation rental business, which I think we're going to have you and your husband back on to talk about?

Cathy Scheller: They can find me through LinkedIn. They could. I don't know. I'm all over the place on Facebook under Cathy Scheller. I stand with Stu. We stand with Stu because we were so censored. I had about five different websites going.

And people, I'd like to add one last thing. Stuart still loves the military for all that has been fired. He just wants to go back and make it better and stronger.

Linda J. Hansen: Wonderful. That is really a wonderful way to close this. So thank you so much. Cathy Scheller, I look forward to having you and your husband, Stu Sr., back to actually talk about some business things and how policies have affected your business. So we’ll do that soon.

But in the meantime, best wishes to you and all your family. And thank you for loving America and standing strong through the trial.

Cathy Scheller: Thank you.

Linda J. Hansen: Thank you again for listening to the Prosperity101® podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share and leave a great review. Don't forget to visit prosperity101.com to access the entire podcast library, to order my newest book, Job Security Through Business Prosperity, the Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck®, or to enroll you or your employees in the Breakroom Economics® online course.

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