Big Beautiful Laboratories of Democracy – with Jonathan Williams – Ep. 263

Linda J. Hansen:  Welcome. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Prosperity 101 Breakroom Economics® Podcast. My name is Linda J. Hansen, your host and the author of Prosperity 101, Job Security Through Business Prosperity, the Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck® and the creator of the Breakroom Economics® Online course.

The book, the course, and the entire podcast library can be found on prosperity101.com. I seek to connect boardroom to breakroom and policy to paycheck. By empowering and encouraging employers to educate employees about the public policy issues that affect their jobs. My goal is to help people understand the foundations of prosperity, the policies of prosperity, and how to protect their prosperity by becoming informed, involved, and impactful®.

I believe this will lead to greater employee loyalty, engagement, and retention, and to an increased awareness of the blessings and responsibilities of living in a free society. Listen each week to hear from exciting guests and be sure to visit prosperity101.com.

Thank you so much for listening today. It is a pleasure to have a repeat guest today that is going to talk about very relevant information. But before I introduce him, I do want to say thank you to our prosperity partners, those who give financially to help us keep the podcast on the air.

We appreciate you, prosperity partners, and if you'd like to become a prosperity partner, please go to the website, prosperity101.com, and click the prosperity partner link, you can support us with any amount, either monthly or whenever you can.

We just appreciate your support. We also have several strategic partners that I'll mention at the end of the episode, and we'd love for you to support them as part of supporting the freedom economy.

And now today, I have, as I mentioned, a repeat guest. Jonathan Williams is not only the guest today, but he's a good friend. He is the president and chief economist at American Legislative Exchange Council or ALEC.

ALEC is the largest voluntary membership organization of state legislators dedicated to limited government, free enterprise, and federalism. And they help and support information to legislators all across America on these important principles. Jonathan has been here many times, and we've talked about so many topics.

Jonathan, it is just a pleasure to have you back, especially as the nation is looking at this big, beautiful bill, and all the changes that President Trump wants to make, and what's happening in our nation. Thank you so much for making time. We can talk about what is happening in the 50 laboratories of democracy.

Jonathan Williams: Well, thank you, Linda. It's great to be back with you, my friend. It's been an incredible, incredible first six months to this year. It's hard to believe here we are rounding out the first half of the year. It's the end of the state fiscal year, which is a really incredible point in time to talk about all the big, beautiful things happening at the state level. But for once, and this is, I can't say this that many times in my career, if ever, Washington, D.C. is moving about as quickly as the states are in many areas with the DOGE and President Trump's efforts to bring education back to the state level and to the parental level appropriately.

And we can talk about that. I know I had a chance to have lunch with the President and a few governors early on this year to talk about that effort before his executive order. And now we have, of course, some really weighty times ahead when it comes to our economy and the big, beautiful bill on tax reform and the Trump tax cuts and everything moving in Washington.

So it's nice to see, as the states are always moving very quickly, Washington is doing the same and in so many good ways to try to move the ball forward for common sense ideas to really empower individuals and empower those principles that you talked about. They're ALEC principles, but more importantly, they're American principles. 

Linda J. Hansen: They are American principles and they're constitutional principles that we hold dear. And as I always say, we have our God-given rights and they are guaranteed to us through our constitution and through our system of government. And so it is just a pleasure whenever we can focus on supporting those rights and protecting those rights. I appreciate everything that ALEC does.

Before we get into things with the big, beautiful bill, though, I'd like you to just share a little bit about ALEC for those who maybe never heard you on this podcast before, but then also behind you in the shot there in the video, we have the cover for Rich States, Poor States. And the Rich States, Poor States guide is something that I promote frequently on my podcast. I invite people to go to ALEC.org to read about it and to download it.

But if you could tell people a little bit more about ALEC and then also the Rich States, Poor States guide and why it is so important for them to see this as they think about their own states.

Jonathan Williams: Well, I've been at ALEC now for 18 years, and the reason I've stayed for this long is it's a one-of-a-kind organization and really the only educational organization in America for state legislators and really for all Americans to bring forward sound, common sense public policy ideas within those principles that we've been talking about that really matter for states and to allow states to continue to be the leaders in these laboratories of democracy. President Reagan said it best, that it was not the federal government that created the states. It was the states that created the federal government.

I think we've got an incredible opportunity here, and ALEC is going to be at the forefront of this, as many of our partner organizations and, of course, individual legislators for ALEC.

America is going to celebrate its 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence in just about a year from now. We have, I think, an incredible opportunity to educate rank-and-file, hardworking Americans across the board, reminding them: Why is it that America is so unique? And why is it that America is great? What differentiates us versus all the other countries that have been formed in the history of the world?

There's so many great ways to isolate that down, whether it's religious freedom, whether that's the rule of law, whether that is property rights, or this idea of decentralized control.

I went back, and Linda, I encourage as just is a challenge to all of your listeners and viewers. I do it everywhere I go as we talk about this really important principle-based topic. If you haven't read the Declaration of Independence recently, go back and reread it.

For me, it had been a while. I reread it as we're getting ready for our ALEC States 250 initiative, as we're going around the country talking about this need to really relearn our history as a nation. It is what the founders had in mind, what was going through their heads when they were aggrieved by all the violations of their rights that are endowed by our Creator with our rights.

And they thought it was a bad situation, where you had a single individual, in the case of the King of England, who was dictating what he thought their rights were, and dictating all kinds of things—that they couldn't assemble together, they couldn't pray, they couldn't practice their religion, they couldn't do all of these things. And if you reread that declaration, which I encourage everybody to do, you see very clearly that the founders knew the danger of a strong central government. And that's why they spent so much time talking about the problems of central planning and central government authority in the declaration.

But then fast forward to the Constitution a number of years later, why they put so many safeguards in place of only giving the federal government certain authority directly. And then, of course, when we get to the Bill of Rights and the 10th Amendment, those things not given to the federal government are reserved for the states, and they wanted the states, and of course, at the end of the day, the people to be the people that are governing. And that's such an important piece of what ALEC does.

Lots of other great conservative organizations are focused on federal issues and focused on how Washington can fix things. And of course, there is an element to that. We have 114 members of the current Congress who are ALEC alumni members. We're proud to work with them. People like Speaker Mike Johnson and Majority Leader Steve Scalise and many, many others.

But the idea, of course, of ALEC is not that all good ideas—in fact, most—will never come from Washington, D.C. They will come from the states and communities and churches and families and people. And that's the important differentiator there. And so we at ALEC are so proud to work with 2,000 state legislators—Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Libertarians, Vegetarians.

We'll have everyone that wants to talk about principle and policy ideas come to the ALEC table and talk about those things within the context of the principles. And so I've been now to all 50 states multiple times over to work with our men and women who serve at the state level. And that, to me, is such a privilege because when you get to know your state legislator—if you don't know your own state legislator, I know, Linda, you do, but for your listeners, if you don't—take some time and go out and have coffee with them when they're in the community.

They're very approachable. They want to hear from you. And they're folks that are good people that are grounded in their communities.

It's not like a member of Congress sometimes where you get the stereotype of a member of Congress who gets stuck in the D.C. bubble and forgets where they came from. The members of the state legislatures don't do it for the money. In a lot of cases, they make $10,000 a year. In the case of New Hampshire, live free or die state, you know what their salary is annually? It's $100 a year is their salary. So they're not doing it for the money. They're doing it because they believe in being principled policymakers in so many of the cases.

And for me, that's why I've done this for nearly two decades. That's why so many of my colleagues and so many ALEC members bleed ALEC blue, as we like to say, because they believe so strongly in this concept of matching up these conservative, constitutional American principles with really the men and women who are supposed to get it done in our federalist system.

You know, Rich States, Poor States, and we can get more into that as we go, is a great way to illustrate the importance of federalism and why it matters so much, why some states like Florida and Texas and Tennessee and Utah are doing so well when they follow the ALEC principles of free markets and limited government, and why states like New York and California, Illinois, they just can't ever seem to get it right because they follow the other framework, which is the big government framework.

And one of my favorites, Thomas Sowell, had the book Conflict of Visions. And that's exactly what this is, in the laboratories of democracy. And this is the beauty of the laboratories of democracy.

Bad ideas can only survive for so long. And then you see the absolute connection to the bad results. And then if you've got policymakers worth anything in those states, they're going to realize you’ve got to course correct, or otherwise you're going to meet some major, major consequences.

That's one of the pieces of the Rich States, Poor States puzzle that we could spend a couple of hours talking about—20 years of Rich States, Poor States as well.

Linda J. Hansen: Well, we really could spend a couple hours and 20 hours, but it is very true: in Rich States, Poor States, you really begin to see the economic impact of taxation—high taxation, low taxation states. You can see the impact of school choice and the test scores. You can see the impacts of health freedom. You can see the impact of land use and property rights. You can see all of it through Rich States, Poor States.

I know that certain states, like you mentioned, are always at the top. Can you give us, say, the top three to five things that really make them stand out?

Jonathan Williams: Well, it’s a great question. And Utah has been number one for all 18 editions of Rich States, Poor States.

I was out in Salt Lake City with the Senate President Stuart Adams from our board, a great friend, and Speaker Schultz and Governor Cox to release the rankings. And Utah has a lot of great things to take away from it as really how they've been able to stay at the top for this many years—an incredible feat when you think about it.

And one of the things that they do, though, before getting into some of the policy measures, is just from a strategic leadership perspective in Utah, they always are looking around the corner to say, not that we're just number one and we can rest on our laurels, but what are all the other states doing and what do we need to do to stay at number one? I mean, that's the question that any good competitive business person asks themselves too—they don't rest on the market share that they have currently.

They look at what their competitors are doing and how they can either chip away their market share or make sure they grow their own. And so that's what Utah has done, I think, very effectively. Every year at the ALEC annual meeting, they'll get their Utah delegation—I think they'll have 40 legislators with us at our annual meeting—and they get in a room and say, here are all the big ideas that we're hearing other states do, and what do we need to do in Utah still to stay ahead? And we ran the numbers on this. One of my analysts on our team did.

And he looked at it and said, if Utah in 2007, the first year of Rich States, Poor States, if they would have just rested on their laurels and not changed anything—being the most competitive state in America in 2007—where would they be today? And it turns out, and there's a little bit of guesswork to see what other states would have done, obviously, but if all else being equal and every state did kind of what they've done in the meantime, Utah would be somewhere around 23 today. And that would have been the best state in America falling all the way down to number 23 and falling behind by standing still.

This is a key lesson of Rich States, Poor States—how competitive the states are right now, how many have moved in the right direction. Even coming out of the pandemic, where we've seen—and we've talked about it before—but it's only accelerated the flat tax revolution of states going from these progressive income taxes, which soak their—at least in their aim—soaks the rich, which ends up getting small businesses caught in the crossfire and making their state much less competitive for job creation.

We have seen seven states, Linda, coming out of the pandemic that have become flat tax states since 2000. Isn't that incredible? Because it took over 100 years, and this kind of ties back to Wisconsin. Wisconsin was the first state in America to adopt a personal income tax, and that goes back to the progressive era—1911, I think it was—when Wisconsin first adopted an income tax.

And you go from that period in 1911 all the way to the pandemic, and you had a grand total of about four states that went from a progressive system to a flat tax. And then since 2020, we've had seven in the flat tax revolution. That right there has been showing the power of the laboratories of democracy, and of course, not just academically, but to see these states now move ahead, leapfrog other states when it comes to job creation and making their state more competitive for small businesses across the board.

That's just one great way that we've seen states move in the right direction. But it proves the point that you fall behind by standing still. Utah was one of the states early on that went to a flat tax in 2007.

But they've done pension reform, which is a major issue where you have your neighbors there to the south in Illinois that kind of show us all what not to do generally. Illinois, under Governor Pritzker, and the unfunded liabilities in their system, continue to threaten really to bankrupt the state. You have the city of Chicago where you have Mayor Brandon Johnson.

I was there in Chicago recently, and I think his approval rating is way up—up to 9%, that is. It was at 6%. Now, I think he's a grand total of 9%. But the city of Chicago has massive unfunded pension liabilities and health care liabilities that threaten to really bankrupt that city.

And so Utah has addressed those things. They've also addressed two other areas. One is the issue of federal funds going out to the states. This has become very pervasive, especially under Biden and Obama, where you had the bailouts of the states. We talked about it in previous episodes. It might seem like it's a good thing that they're trying to save the states.

But it turns out whenever the federal government sends a dollar out, it doesn't go out free. There's no such thing as a free lunch, as Milton Friedman always reminded us.

It goes with federal strings attached. And now, in the case of some states, we have Mississippi and Louisiana—two states where more than 50% of their entire all-funds budget now comes from the federal government. And whether that's Medicaid or other areas, it really ties the hands of policymakers and makes them beholden—back to that idea of the central government problem—beholden to Washington, D.C. for their assistance, really, as a state.

Utah has gotten around that and really has said, hey, what makes sense for Utah? What doesn't make sense for Utah? Let's reject things that don't make sense for Utah that would beholden us to federal regulations and requirements.

And then the other thing I'll mention is property taxes. I've gone around the country and almost always, every hand will go up of state legislators when they're hearing complaints. Really, the number one thing is they talk to constituents that they're worried about—escalating property tax bills, where it's taxing seniors out of their homes on fixed incomes, or it's really, really inhibiting an entire next generation of young homebuyers that can't afford to buy a home because of prices being high and property tax being a big driver of that.

Utah, because of adopting what has now become an ALEC model—truth in taxation—has really gotten to the heart of that issue. Those are a few things why Utah has been at number one.

And you really tie that over to the general philosophy of the top 10 states in Rich States, Poor States for economic outlook. It's really: how do we balance our key needs for core government services and spending with keeping taxes as low as possible? And, by the way, avoiding some of the most damaging types of taxes. Not all taxes are created equal.

Taxes on capital, taxes on income—those are some of the most damaging forms of taxes. The states at the top of our rankings get it right on keeping regulations in check, keeping good labor policy with right-to-work and other policies, but keeping taxes low and avoiding the most damaging types of taxes as they balance their spending needs within a balanced budget environment.

Linda J. Hansen: You know, it's so common sense. There are so many of these things that are common sense, especially as you see the data come out that proves the point so often, year after year. I think those of us in the 50 states, we look at the federal government and say, why can you not pay attention?

And now we have this big, beautiful bill going through the legislature now and being discussed in the Senate, and then it'll go back to the House and things. And when this particular episode releases, it will actually come out after July 4th week.

Of course, right now we're recording and we have no idea what is actually going to be in the final bill. But there are so many things in there that you discussed that are great for states, that would be so great for the federal government—lower taxation and less regulation and all of these things that lead to enormous job growth.

And we can see it in the Trump administration. You know, people cried crazy, fear mongering when it came to the tariffs. But we're already seeing so much positive about that with people reshoring their manufacturing.

And just like in states, when states provide a great business environment, businesses come there, jobs are provided, and everyone rises. You know, all the boats rise when the water is filled.

It's really amazing to me that the federal government doesn't pay more attention to these successful states like Utah. But it's great that there's ALEC members—that the number of ALEC members is growing in the federal government. Iit's great to know that they're there being a voice for these common sense principles.

Jonathan Williams: Well, it's back to what Art Laffer always says: it's not rocket surgery, it's basic economics 101. And what doesn't work versus what works and don't take my word for it.

The free market economist, Jonathan Williams— take the successes of all the states that follow the ALEC formula of lower taxes and limited government and federalism and better regulatory policies. And down the line of all the things that we measure in Rich States, Poor States—avoiding debt, avoiding pension liabilities. You compare those states, and those are the booming states, the states that are growing, the states that are creating new jobs, the states that people want to move into.

There's so many examples of that, whether it's Texas and Florida—who get all the attention because they're the big states and they're big numbers of hundreds of thousands of people moving in, in just in recent years. But I mean, you look at some states then that have been states that have been stagnant for years, Ohio being one of them.

As a Michigander, it pains me a little bit to sing the praises of Ohio as much. Just kidding. No, they've been doing a great job. Actually, they're just passing a flat tax. They're going to become the next state in the flat tax revolution at 2.75 percent. And Ohio is a great turnaround story. These kinds of turnaround stories, to me, really show the causal relationship of lower taxes driving growth.

It's not like they've always been competitive states. In fact, in the first edition of Rich States, Poor States, Ohio was ranked 47th for economic outlook, with 50th being worst. And now they're chipping into the top half of states, but they keep making improvements.

They became an education freedom state. And we can talk more about that because now we have 17 states across the country that are school choice, education freedom, where the dollars follow the families and the parental decisions are the ones that matter the most, of course, for their kids. Ohio did that.

They've cut taxes in Ohio after being an out-migration state for 40 years straight. That is, more Americans chose to leave Ohio than Americans chose to go to Ohio on net. It takes out birth rates and death rates and takes out international immigration.

That's what we measure in Rich States, Poor States—net domestic migration. And that really shows where Americans feel the opportunities lie across states. And Ohio had been on the losing end of that for 40 years—4-0—40 years straight.

There's probably a good analogy to show in terms of the Bible there—40 years in the wilderness, right? You have 40 years straight of population outflow from Ohio. You do school choice. They did school choice recently. They cut taxes. They've done some great regulatory reforms. And just in the last year or two, Ohio's begun to see in-migration from the other 49 states for the first time in a generation plus.

And a more extreme example of that, of the turnaround story, is West Virginia, where it's got one of my favorite governors in America right now, Governor Patrick Morrisey, who was the Attorney General. He led the way on West Virginia versus EPA, the Supreme Court case that then led the way for the Chevron deference going away under Loper Bright this last Supreme Court term, which is a big deal in terms of empowering the legislative branch and disempowering unelected bureaucrats.

And so what Governor Morrisey has done on tax cuts and regulatory relief—and then in recent years, West Virginia became a right-to-work state, saying you don't need to be a member of a union to work.

It's an incredible opportunity to create jobs in that state. West Virginia—many of you know this story—you can go back. We talked about Ohio—40 years back. West Virginia—you'd have to go back a century to find the last time West Virginia was an inbound migration state from the other 49 states.

Well, you turn the page into 2025, and the census showed for the first time in 100 years, after school choice, tax cuts, deregulation, and right-to-work, West Virginia is now an inbound state. Incredible turnaround stories.

And so that, for me, you could make the argument: you have Texas and Florida. They've been competitive. They are in the South. They don't have cold winters. People love the beaches—all those arguments that people make to try to explain away why they're growth states.

You don't explain away West Virginia and Ohio, other than saying they have become free market, education freedom states. 

Linda J. Hansen: And that's such a good point. And you don't explain away people leaving California for the weather, right?

Jonathan Williams: That's right. No person has ever left California and gone to Texas for better weather. But why is it that they're going? And why is it that big companies—Chevron Corporation just left last year from San Ramon into Houston, Texas?

And that is exactly the point. If you've been to California, you know they've got the best weather on Earth. They've got Silicon Valley. They've got the beaches. They've got the mountains. They've got Hollywood. They've got everything. And yet they're hemorrhaging hundreds of thousands of people every single year to the other 49 states.

Linda J. Hansen: Exactly. And that brings me to, I think, what will be our last question, because I'm sure we'll talk a lot about it, is: what would you say to employers who need to educate their employees about these issues? You know, that's my heart—getting employers to empower their employees to understand the importance of these issues when they go to the voting booth so they don't vote themselves right out of their job, so their jobs do not go to the other 49 states. They stay in the state where the employee wants to live.

And so what would you say to employers and how they can educate their employees?

Jonathan Williams: Well, and this is really nonpartisan principles right here: be involved in the policy discussion and don't shy away from talking about what good policy looks like. And the case of—one of the biggest questions we always get as we travel across the country and talk about this Rich States, Poor States story is, well, if I get all these people coming from California and New York, they're going to turn my state into the bad policies that they came from, right? They're going to bring those bad ideas with them. And that's a big question.

It does make a lot of people nervous, but here's where I think the voice of the employers is just so important. I think it's existential to the future success of states that are inbound migration states especially. They and their trade associations and their chambers of commerce—the state chambers, the local chambers, the business groups, NFIB chapters, whoever they're involved with—and then directly with their employees.

And once again, this isn't a partisan message. This is the message of: be involved in the discussions to say, why is it that people have an opportunity in Texas and Florida and Utah and didn't have this opportunity in California and New York and Illinois and the other high-tax states? Policy matters, but involvement matters.

There's so much attention—and rightly so right now—paid to Washington, D.C. and the big beautiful bill, and avoiding what would be an existential problem for our nation if the Trump tax cuts go away. Guaranteed recession if they don't get these renewed.

But at the state level, making sure that people pay attention to what is happening in state and local units of government. We talked about it earlier in terms of those local elected officials wanting to hear from their constituents. They want to go grab coffee.

They want to know why is it that their employers are bringing jobs to their district and their state and they left another place. And tell that story. Americans are so busy trying to get their kids to soccer practice on time that they don't have time to get into the substance of the issues in a lot of ways.

And employers can play a key role in that educational piece, because, I think we were talking before we got started with the interview, that there's so much political theater of us versus them. And people like to see that gotcha question in the hit piece—that, you know, it's a Republican versus Democrat. Throw that out the window for a second.

And let's talk about what are these constitutional principles that made America great, that we're going to celebrate—America's 250th year in about a year—and have those employers tell and retell not just theoretically what those principles are, but why it matters for the quality of life and the cost of life for all their employees.

Linda J. Hansen: It's so important, and that's why I do what I do, really to hopefully bring that illumination to all the employers and employees. And I say too, that if employers don't do it, who will? Because we have all of these people in the workforce that have come through the public education system or through the upper university systems.

And we can see some great results from these things. But we also see what that has done to our culture in terms of what's been taught over the years—for people to hate America and have this entitlement society. And if we don't have employers helping to share that truth in the workplace, we have millions—millions of people—who will not understand, and they'll continue to go to the voting booth and vote themselves out of the very jobs they need to make their lives better. So that's my passion. 

Jonathan Williams: You do such a great job bringing this to the forefront. And thank you for your good work to continue to do that. And it's really to the heart of what ALEC is as well, as we're bringing businesses and individuals who care about the cause together with America's state legislators to have that discussion.

We don't shy away from bringing businesses to the discussion. A lot of people do and say profit is a dirty word. We think it's a positive thing because where do people's wages come from? They come from profits, right? So bringing businesses and individuals together within that principle framework is exactly why ALEC was created.

Linda J. Hansen: Well, it is just a pleasure to have you give an update about ALEC and everything that's been going on in the states. So listeners, if you want to learn more, you can go to ALEC.org. And you can find Jonathan there if you'd like to contact him. But also make sure you look at—there are different things they have, different task forces. We've really spent a lot of time in this particular episode talking about Rich States, Poor States, but there's so much more.

I mean, he talked about the task force on education, and there's an energy task force, and there's so much information that you can glean. And so whatever your industry is, or whatever your interests are, you can find information that will be helpful for you, not only to make your own decisions, but also as you want to have some talking points or some data—real information that can inform your state legislators or your federal legislators. Like we said, they should be paying attention to what works in the states, and we should do that at the federal level.

So thank you, Jonathan, we just appreciate it so much. And do you have any other closing comments before we end the interview?

Jonathan Williams: Well, it's always great to join you. Yes, ALEC.org is an incredible resource, I encourage everyone to check it out. Brand new task force on election integrity and process and procedures issues, a brand new task force on veterans and military affairs, and then all the different issues that we've dealt with for years. And so there's tons of great material, and it's just a great way to work with your audience.

Linda, I know we'd love to donate a couple of hard copies of Rich States, Poor States for you to give out. We can sign and send out to a couple of your valued listeners out there. So really appreciate the opportunity to be back with you.

Linda J. Hanssen: Well, it's always a pleasure. I hope you'll come back soon. Every time is just full of information. So thank you so much.

And listeners, thank you for watching or listening to this particular episode. And before we close, I want to say thank you again to our prosperity partners and to our strategic partners. You can go to our website or the show notes and you can find the U.S. Christian Chamber of Commerce, where you can learn to do kingdom commerce with other like-minded business leaders from around the nation, and Mother Nature's Trading Company, which provides great products for your health with natural cranberry seed oil fresh from Wisconsin.

Then VAUSA, providing wonderful virtual assistants—made in America virtual assistants—that includes many military families, so you can support those who help support our freedom. And Red Balloon—Red Balloon, the nation's number one non-woke job board where you can be free to work and free to hire.

And if you care about saving babies, please support our strategic partner Pro-Life Payments, where you can save babies with every swipe of your credit card. And last but not least, Podcast Town. If you're interested in starting a podcast or elevating the one you have, please visit Podcast Town.

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So thank you again, Jonathan. And thank you to everybody listening. We just hope you'll have a great Fourth of July. This will come out after the Fourth of July holiday. So Jonathan, thank you, and we look forward to having you back before the next Fourth of July.

Jonathan Williams: Thank you. I look forward to it. Thank you.

Linda J. Hansen: Okay, thank you. Thank you again for listening to the Prosperity101® podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share and leave a great review. Don't forget to visit prosperity101.com to access the entire podcast library, to order my newest book, Job Security Through Business Prosperity, the Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck®, or to enroll you or your employees in the Breakroom Economics® online course.

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