Live Like Free People – with Dr. Michael Farris – [Ep. 205]

Linda J. Hansen:  Welcome. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Prosperity 101® Breakroom Economics Podcast. My name is Linda J. Hansen, your host and the author of Prosperity 101®- Job Security Through Business Prosperity: The Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck, and the creator of the Breakroom Economics Online course, the book, the course and the entire podcast library can be found on Prosperity101.Com. I seek to connect boardroom to break room and policy to paycheck by empowering and encouraging employers to educate employees about the public policy issues that affect their jobs. My goal is to help people understand the foundations of prosperity, the policies of prosperity, and how to protect their prosperity by becoming informed, involved, and impactful. I believe this will lead to greater employee loyalty, engagement and retention, and to an increased awareness of the blessings and responsibilities of living in a free society. Listen each week to hear from exciting guests and be sure to visit Prosperity 101.com.

Thank you so much for tuning in today. I have a wonderful guest that I know you'll appreciate listening to, an old friend who has been a mentor, a friend, an encourager, and just a hero in the faith and in the fight for freedom. My good friend, and like I said, a mentor to me in so many ways, is Dr. Michael Ferriss. We first met in around 1982, I believe, when he was counsel for concerned women for America. And I was one of the early chapter leaders and early members. And then he went on to form homeschool Legal Defense association. And I learned so much from him, from his wife, Vicki, but also with Chris Clicka when they were running homeschool Legal Defense association, had wonderful leadership programs, training programs. So much about my involvement in politics and the abilities I have have come through those trainings. He went on to start Patrick Henry College, and then he went on to lead Alliance Defending Freedom, which has been at the forefront of defending our freedoms and liberties in America, especially in recent times where we've seen them so attacked. So it is with great honor and pleasure that I introduce you again to my friend, Dr. Michael Farriss. Thank you for joining me, Linda.

Dr. Michael Farris:

That was great. The only correction I would make is that you were the high school chapter leader in 1982.

Linda J. Hansen:

I think the last time I interviewed you, you said, yeah, we met when you were ten and I was eight. But the truth is we actually were well into our growing families. And now you have how many children?

Dr. Michael Farris:

Well, we have ten children. That number has been stable for 26 years. We have 30 grandchildren. I've been a grandfather now for 24 years, but I think I've been a pretty good grandfather. But just before Christmas, they told me, no, you're not just a pretty good grandfather, you're a great grandfather. So I have one great grandchild.

Linda J. Hansen:

Oh, that's so exciting. I have six grandkids, and in fact, one of them, their birthday is today. But it's hard to keep up with all their birthdays and everything. But it's great when you just think that we have the opportunity to not only impact our own families, but then to really protect freedom and try to have an impact for future generations. What an honor it is to be grandparents, but also what an honor it is to live in America, where we have the freedom to promote the biblical principles, the judeo christian values, the constitutional values that have made this nation strong and have allowed us to have the freedom to share the gospel, create wealth, build families, build nations, and just promote freedom. So it's just amazing. I saw you this morning. You were heading a panel here at national religious broadcasters. And for those of you who don't know, we are actually recording this at NRB 2024. And it's a wonderful conference of publishers, broadcasters, people from all over the world, really, who want to get truth and freedom out, especially the truth of Christ and how it impacts every area of our. He was, Dr. Farriss was leading a panel on some of the recent cases that have gone through in the Supreme Court and in other courts across the country. And one of the speakers said, we have more freedom now than we have had in recent years because of recent court cases. So we should live as free people. And that just struck me, I thought, how often we don't live as free people and even as employers. When I try to help employers educate employees about policies in the workplace, they're afraid. We don't have to be afraid. God tells us not to fear. We can live as free people. So, Dr. Ferris, can you tell us some of the great successes we've had recently in the area of religious freedom and freedom of speech?

Dr. Michael Farris:

Sure. The leading case that we were focused on this morning's panel, well, it's kind of behind the scenes, at least, is the Dobbs case. And ADF, while I was the CEO of that organization, was co counseled to the state of Mississippi in that case. And, of course, that's reversed. Roe versus Wade. Now, that doesn't make America a pro life nation, but it makes it possible for your state to be so, a number of states have. And so freedom for the unborn is a really important freedom. It's also a moral issue. But the right to life is an essential freedom of course, that's better. It's not perfect by any means yet, because we have a long way to go to make every state pro life. But we've got the door open. In the area of religious freedom, there's two sides of religious freedom issues. There's the establishment clause. In fact, the first amendment says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, nor denying the free exercise thereof. So the establishment clause is about how much religion the government can be a part of without going too far and having a state church. I mean, the state church is clearly an establishment of religion, but there are things short of that that would also be improper. Then the free exercise is how much can we live out our faith in day to day life? It's not merely worship. It's the free exercise of religion. It's the acting out of your life in that. So on the establishment clause, the so called separation of church and state, we're better on this than we have been since the early 60s because of a decision. Actually, several decisions along the way kind of undermined the lemon test. It's called Lemon versus Kurtzman was the full name of the case. But in the case involving coach Kennedy from Bremerton, Washington, that was handled by First Liberty, which is one of NRB's organizations, they presented the case in such a way that the Supreme Court finally said, lemon is dead, and knocked it out entirely and looked to a different test that's much more aligned with history. That when the government is. There's any coercion involved of people or official government endorsement in a way that is clear, allowing a public school teacher to pray by himself on the 50 yard line is not an established religion in any historically grounded sense. And the court went back to that historical grounding for the basis. So in that side of things, the tendency to try to stop people from doing religious things in the public square because it might be considered the government's endorsement of religion, that's so much better than it was. That's really an important one. Another case that was mentioned is the Transworld Airlines case involving protection for religious workers on the job. And the court in a case involving Transworld Airlines, which tells you how old the case is, because Transworld Airlines hasn't existed for a good long while. The court there basically forced employees to show very difficult standard of proof to be able to get a religious accommodation at work. And the court's new position reversing that is basically, if it's possible for the employer to accommodate you, they need to do so. So it's a much more friendly test. The one thing that needs to still be fixed, and we talked about it this morning as well, is there's a case called employment division versus Smith. And that case, the court took the free exercise of religion and really devalued it tremendously, much worse than it was and so on, that we're still in a bad situation at the US Supreme Court level. But a number of states have followed suit with Congress in passing state religious freedom Restoration acts.

So, for example, Hobby Lobby won their case in the United States Supreme Court not based on the First Amendment, but based on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. I was the co chairman of the group of lawyers who wrote that law. In fact, I'm the guy who named it, which is just because nobody else had another suggestion. And so anyhow, so there are some statutory helps, but we shouldn't have to turn to statues. We have the First Amendment, the First Amendment protection of our God given rights should be sufficient. We shouldn't have to go be writing laws in certain states and having courts interpret it in other ways. And so that's an area that we need to still need some improvement. So on net, getting rid of those three really bad decisions from the 70s is really good. So that's why the person concluded the other area that I've worked on a lot, and I would say it's in a kind of a murky no man's land right now, and that's parents rights. And so there's a Supreme Court decision from the year 2000 that messed up parents rights. It used to be treated as a high level fundamental right, and the court splintered all over the place. In this case called Troxel versus Granville, that's got to be clarified. You don't have to go so far as to reverse it, but we do have to clarify it.

Linda J. Hansen:

These things are so important. And I remember back in the early 80s, you were fighting parents rights, parents rights to home school, parents rights to raise their children in the way they felt the best. And we can see so much that there's been this erosion, this constant eroding of parental rights. And that is one of the ways that the Marxism, the communism, the destruction of culture happens, is you destroy the family. And so with these religious freedom cases, as well as just the freedom of speech cases, we are protecting the rights of families and individuals. And for those listening, too, I know we talk a lot about businesses. He's mentioned things that affect businesses here. And when businesses are not free to conduct business in the way they deem appropriate, we don't have freedom, and that truly impacts the ability to create profit, to provide jobs. It just has this trickle-down effect that affects families, communities, and ultimately our nation. We see the negative impact of this all across the nation. And thankfully, there are people working like Dr. Farris and the people here at national religious broadcasters and so many of the organizations present here to really turn the tide. But it takes all of us. We can't depend on just these people. I think you were saying that the organizations that were part of the panel that you were leading this morning, they have 40% of the budget of the ACLU.

Well, it's hard to win with one hand tied behind your back. So, people, if you are listening right now and you would like to get in the fight, but you don't really know how. One of the ways is to send money. Send money to alliance defending freedom. Send money. Help the national religious broadcasters with their advocacy things. Help these christian organizations, these free speech organizations. It's so important. The other thing is to talk about these things in your workplace. Make sure your employees are aware, because many of your employees have no idea of what's really happening in America or even what makes it possible for you to have a company to provide jobs, to pay paychecks. What makes it possible? We have a system of government here that we don't have everywhere else. And so it's important, it's very important to share that with others. And that's why I do prosperity 101®. And Dr. Ferriss has always been a great encouragement to me in that, but also just a great example and motivator in terms of standing up for what is true and right. So if you could tell the listeners some other things that they could do to educate their family, educate their employees, what would you say would be, like, the top three steps you would tell them?

Dr. Michael Farris:

Well, I think that what I did as a six year old is a pretty good thing to do as a family. I started reading the newspaper every day when I was six, and I got really interested in politics as a result of that, and I would talk it over with my dad. And I think as simple as just simply reading the news, you might want to pick something a little more fair minded than most newspapers these days, but there are good sources you can find. Read the news together, talk about it. That's really important when you're going to vote. Figure out why you're voting and explain it to your kids, what you're doing. Explain the principles of it. I think that the trends that we see with more and more kids turning to the left high percentage endorsing socialism and other things of that nature would go away if parents would explain to them why we're voting. Because if kids knew how much of their own money as they start making a living is going to go to wasteful government programs, they would be a lot more conservative than they are because they want to make their own decisions. And people need to understand only one person can make an ultimate decision on each. So if the government makes the decision for you, you're not free. If you make the decision for you, you're free. Now, America has never been, nor can it be 100% free. But we need to move the bar far more to the freedom direction and away from the government controlling everything direction. It produces better results and happier people. That's just plain fact.

Linda J. Hansen:

It does. It produces better results and happier people. And we can share those better results and that happier environment around the world. Really, we have been the beacon light of freedom for so many years. But now if we fall, it all falls. And so we really have to stand up. We need to be prayer warriors to defend our nation and ask God to intervene. And we need to ask God to forgive our nation for what we've done. We've turned aside. We have neglected to uphold the principles that are outlined in scripture. And because we want a Judeo-Christian culture or we've had these values doesn't mean every single person needs to be Christian, although we'd love that because there's such freedom in Christ. But it's every person's choice. It's not mandating their faith, but it's mandating some rules of society. In a sense, to have a healthy, free, active society where people can flourish. It's about human flourishing and freedom indeed.

Dr. Michael Farris:

In fact, just to add on to your prior question, what can people do? I actually have two video curriculums that they could look at. One is a constitutional literacy course where I basically teach high school level constitutional law. And some of the people that have taken that course are now arguing cases in the supreme court of the United States or they're in the state legislatures. That's a tried and true thing that has produced good results. So if you go to hslda.org and click on their store, you can find that thing. Or else just put my name, Michael Ferriss Farris, and the words constitutional literacy into any search engine. You'll come right up. The other is a brand new program that just got released a couple of three months ago. It's called American Civics with Michael Ferriss. And so if you just search for that phrase on the Internet, it'll come right up and you can do it. So there's video courses for both. And if you want to just watch the videos, you can order that. Or if you want written course materials to go with that for homeschoolers especially, or study groups or something, you can do that. But we should train our kids, because if our kids don't believe the principles of freedom, we're not going to have a free country. So you can't just be lackadaisical about it and assume that they're going to get it by osmosis. It's not going to work that way.

Linda J. Hansen:

Exactly. We need to be very intentional. And I appreciate everything that you've done. My family has been blessed. I know that you know this, but all six of my kids have taken your constitutional law. Of course, it was called constitutional law at the time I've taken it, and it has been something. I keep the book very handy, and I refer often to it. And so I appreciate what you have shared and the fact that it's impacted my family, and it's part of why I do what I do, because I came to know the constitution so much better and have devoted time and my life to fighting for it and the freedoms that are contained therein. So it's just a blessing. And my heart is so much to help employers be bold about sharing these principles. And for listeners, you probably don't know this, but Dr. Farris has been a wonderful advisor to me with Prosperity 101®. Has often just offered prayer, support, a word of advice here or there, and just been such a great encouragement. And he actually read the most recent book before it was actually published and read my course outline, everything. And he said, Prosperity 101® is exactly what is needed and will serve as important, filling a critical gap in our system. And he believes, as I do, that employers, you have a great responsibility and opportunity. We're talking about parental rights. We're talking about rights as citizens. But there's a workplace full of people. And now with new immigrants coming in, people have no idea. They have not been taught the principles of freedom, the principles of prosperity, of human flourishing and freedom. And if you don't teach them, who will? I mean, who will? Hopefully, they'll catch something on the airwaves, but they may not ever even look for such content. So, employers, you have a unique opportunity to present basic facts to your employees to help them understand the policies of freedom. And if you could give a message to employers about this, what would you say to them? Dr. Ferris?

Dr. Michael Farris:

Well, the simplest thing to say is get your program Prosperity 101® and use it. It's great. It's there, available, and it's not written in any kind of religiously offensive way. It's very down the middle in that sense, and solid Christian thinking is behind it. But it's presented in an even handed fashion. That's perfect. And the pitch of it is perfect and gives you opportunities, but it really does. It's not down the middle that socialism and capitalism are equal. No, it's not neutral on those things. It's very clear that one's better than the other. It's not a heavy kind of preachy tone to it. It's, here are the facts. Just look at the facts, because truth is on our side. If we get people to just look at the facts, then we always do well in such an environment. So that's one thing you can do. And then as you started this program, live like free people. Be free in your own life, but use your opportunity that you have as an employer to help. You're not just helping the country, you'll help your business. Once every employee really believes that free enterprise is a good idea, their motivation to do a good job at work just went up. And so it'll affect your bottom line in a positive manner. And so it's well worth the minimal number of hours it takes to get through the whole course. And so I wouldn't recommend you do it all one fell swoop. First of all, people wouldn't remember it as well if they did that. And secondly, that would be disruptive of the business. But if you do it for short periods on a weekly basis or something, or maybe two times a month, I don't know, it doesn't matter really that much. You will get a better workforce out of it and we'll get a better nation out of that.

Linda J. Hansen:

Absolutely. And that's why I keep at this, because it will bring loyalty, engagement and retention as you begin to share with them these principles and you let them know you care. But that really does change their whole concept of why they go to work. And I just like to encourage listeners with this, too. Ronald Reagan had very liberal views until he worked for General Electric, and General Electric had a book club. They wanted to help their employees understand why the free market capitalistic system was what was important to their business. And Ronald Reagan's worldview began to change as he read these books that were just part of this workplace book club. And that's something simple you can do. And you have no idea if one of your young employees might be a leader of the free world one day that can help to provide freedom to millions. So you never know who you might be educating. So, with that, Dr. Farris, I just have one other question for you. We mentioned that we're recording this at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. We talked about your roles with concerned women for America, homeschool, Legal Defense Association, Patrick Henry College Alliance, Defending Freedom. But we didn't really touch on your role here at national religious broadcasters. So I think the listeners might wonder what you do with NRB.

Dr. Michael Farris:

Well, thank you. This is my semi-retirement job. I like to say I'm semi-retired, semi like a big truck. And so I officially work half time for NRB and as general counsel. Every business, including nonprofit organizations, has a certain amount of routine, looking at contracts, talking about employee issues. And so maybe 5% or 10% of my time is doing that kind of stuff, which I have a little bit of experience, but not a lot. I would not be the best hire if that was what you did a lot. But what we do a lot is right in my wheelhouse, and that's First Amendment expertise, because the whole point of NRB is to preserve the first Amendment rights of Christian broadcasters, and those rights are under attack. Even though we're in a good era, the one thing is also true. We're in the era of the most hostility on the other side. So we've got a lot of victories going on. We've got a lot of hostility going on, and so they want to shut all of us down as quickly as they can. Ultimately, it's about God. Like the transgender issue, it's not about equality for people that have the unfortunate disease of gender dysphoria. It's about stamping out the idea that God created us, male and female. It's ultimately an assault on God. And pretty much every issue can be boiled down to an assault on God in one way or another. And so we need to stand up. We need to lead. We need to do what we can to take advantage of our opportunities. And there is a gap in the wall that employers can fill. Teach your employees the principles of freedom. You'll be better for it. America will be better for it.

Linda J. Hansen:

Well, I couldn't have said it better myself. So thank you for your work with NRB, and thank you again for your friendship, your encouragement, but also for your heroic efforts. And I say heroic because it takes a lifetime of persistence, dedication, and sacrifice to fight for freedom the way you have. So thank you so much.

Dr. Michael Farris:

God bless you, and you're quite welcome thank you.

Linda J. Hansen:

Thank you.

Outro:

Linda J. Hansen: Thank you again for listening to the Prosperity 101® Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a great review. Don't forget to visit Prosperity101.com to access the entire podcast library to order my newest book, Job Security Through Business Prosperity: The Essential Guide to Understanding How Policy Affects Your Paycheck or to enroll you or your employees in the Breakroom Economics online course. You can also receive the free e-book, 10 Tips for Helping Employees Understand How Public Policy Affects Their Paychecks. Freedom is never free. Understanding the foundations of prosperity and the policies of prosperity will help you to protect prosperity as you become informed, involved, and impactful. Please contact us today at Prosperity101.com to let us know how we can serve you. Thank you.